Nick Costanzo
Oct 8, 2007, 10:34 pm
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THREAD : MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Started at Sep 15, 2006 03:45 am by raul grau
Visit at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=40144
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[Post 1]
Author : raul grau
Date : Sep 15, 2006 03:45 am
Title : MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/mangamerica.jpg" hspace=10 align=left border=0 alt="Mangamerica logo">By Marcina Riley, fantasyfiv@yahoo.com
Dear Mr. And Mrs. Manga Publisher,
I feel the need to start this letter by mentioning that I'm a fairly tolerant person when it comes to anime and manga. I don't mind watching dubs, so long as the voices aren't scratchy and/or annoying. I easily forgive translation errors in exchange for general understanding or just plain good entertainment. Honestly, I care more about the entertainment value thank accuracy. Japanese is, after all, a completely different language from English. However, it is with that in mind that I beg of you to stop using catchy slang in your translations and/or adaptations. I realize that you are trying to make your product appealing, and I hope accurate, but not only are you doing a disservice to fans, you are also not doing a very good job of translating the material. If anything, I feel, the opposite is happening. You are turning away fans.
For starters, the word "Stoked". I can name on one hand the number of times that I've heard this phrase. Not only is it outdated, but even when I was in high school, that term was only used by movies about surfer boys. It certainly isn't something a twenty year old would say, at least not one that's supposed to be from a smaller town or with a highly educated background. And yet, not only do characters use "Stoked" in your books, they also use the word "Dude". I admit to using this word, but very rarely and, when I do, humorously. I also find that most of the slang is mixed. The words used come from many different backgrounds. After picking up the recent volume of one of my favorite manga, I had to read it three times in order to understand it. It eventually became intelligible, but how does this help your product?
My general understanding is that Japanese is spoken in a variety of voices. A young woman raised in an affluent family will use a completely different language than a boy raised on the streets. However, in a lot of the manga with these catchy phrases, both characters use the same words and the same slang. It makes no sense, and to further complicate matters, characters get their words slapped together from different places and time periods. Nana's recent use of the word "Teeny-bopper" really irked me. This is not a word people of my generation use, let alone those of my cousin's. There was no other possibility to use in this translation? No better choice? Perhaps, "Young Person" would have been a bit less dated, and wouldn't have stuck out as much.
Sometimes I wonder if these adaptation authors of yours watch television at all. Or, rather, sit down and watch something like American Idol. (Yes, I just mentioned that show.) But my point is that Idol is a reality show where people talk like individuals. If paying attention, a viewer can get a good grasp of how each person talks, and where their slang comes from. Each is unique. English may not have the rules that Japanese does, but ever person is (to use a well-used metaphor) a quilt, and individual language is a good way to get a sense of where we come from. I realize that's hard to translate, but the best way is to not throw in catchy words just because you can. This is dating the work that you are writing. In ten years, those words won't be used. And a lot of times, the original Japanese text used wasn't a slang word, just a well worn word like "Cool".
This is harder for me to tolerate than it might be for other people, because I have Communications in my background. I'm trained to pick up on verbal and nonverbal cues. To make matters worse, I went to school to be script writer. One of the lessons drilled into me by my professors was that we are all individuals; we chose to use words for specific reasons. I was also taught that it was a bad idea to use words that can be easily dated, such as slang. Keeping the work smart keeps it trendy and fashionable in a much more sneaky way. I'm not asking the authors to change what they do or how they do it, but, certainly, trying to find the best fit, rather than the best trendy thing to say, would be better.
Anyway, I thank you for hearing me out. I'm not trying to cause trouble, just point out a horrible flaw. It affects my ability to read the work. The more irritation I have from it, the less I want to read certain manga. How can that be helpful? Wouldn't it be more important to try to attract the most people on a regular basis, rather than a small number from a specific crowd for little bit of time?
P.S. This is not directed to a specific publisher... there are actually quite a few of that fall into this trap.
<center><hr width=75%></center>
Marcina Riley does not watch American Idol... often.
<center><hr width=75%></center>
The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.
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[Post 2]
Author : Ann Nichols
Date : Sep 15, 2006 02:12 pm
Title : Re: MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
True. You don't want to be too trendy. I have one of those MAD Magazine reprints of some of their material from the 1950s. One of the items was a translation from Shakespeare into what was the slang of the time. I had to read the original (provided in the book) to figure out what the slang meant.
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[Post 3]
Author : Mike Sangregorio
Date : Sep 19, 2006 08:35 am
Title : Re: MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Ever think of doing an artilce on the Japanese only Transformers stuff? After we got tired of it over here in the 80s, the Japanese kept the show going and later added more than a few Manga stories. Just a thought.
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[Post 4]
Author : Marcina Riley
Date : Sep 24, 2006 12:17 am
Title : Re: MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Wow that brings up memories. I think they've aired some new stuff here actually. Thing is I'm not exactly sure where to start. It's like trying to do an article on the Xmen o.o I'd rather not do a general focus, something more personal. Of course, if we get too personal I'll start remember when I was 8 and balling in tears over optimuses death. (I really need to get that movie) Anyway, definitely a possibility. :)
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The messages has been download from Comixfan Forums at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums at 05.10.2007 10:40:32
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THREAD : MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Started at Sep 15, 2006 03:45 am by raul grau
Visit at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=40144
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[Post 1]
Author : raul grau
Date : Sep 15, 2006 03:45 am
Title : MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/mangamerica.jpg" hspace=10 align=left border=0 alt="Mangamerica logo">By Marcina Riley, fantasyfiv@yahoo.com
Dear Mr. And Mrs. Manga Publisher,
I feel the need to start this letter by mentioning that I'm a fairly tolerant person when it comes to anime and manga. I don't mind watching dubs, so long as the voices aren't scratchy and/or annoying. I easily forgive translation errors in exchange for general understanding or just plain good entertainment. Honestly, I care more about the entertainment value thank accuracy. Japanese is, after all, a completely different language from English. However, it is with that in mind that I beg of you to stop using catchy slang in your translations and/or adaptations. I realize that you are trying to make your product appealing, and I hope accurate, but not only are you doing a disservice to fans, you are also not doing a very good job of translating the material. If anything, I feel, the opposite is happening. You are turning away fans.
For starters, the word "Stoked". I can name on one hand the number of times that I've heard this phrase. Not only is it outdated, but even when I was in high school, that term was only used by movies about surfer boys. It certainly isn't something a twenty year old would say, at least not one that's supposed to be from a smaller town or with a highly educated background. And yet, not only do characters use "Stoked" in your books, they also use the word "Dude". I admit to using this word, but very rarely and, when I do, humorously. I also find that most of the slang is mixed. The words used come from many different backgrounds. After picking up the recent volume of one of my favorite manga, I had to read it three times in order to understand it. It eventually became intelligible, but how does this help your product?
My general understanding is that Japanese is spoken in a variety of voices. A young woman raised in an affluent family will use a completely different language than a boy raised on the streets. However, in a lot of the manga with these catchy phrases, both characters use the same words and the same slang. It makes no sense, and to further complicate matters, characters get their words slapped together from different places and time periods. Nana's recent use of the word "Teeny-bopper" really irked me. This is not a word people of my generation use, let alone those of my cousin's. There was no other possibility to use in this translation? No better choice? Perhaps, "Young Person" would have been a bit less dated, and wouldn't have stuck out as much.
Sometimes I wonder if these adaptation authors of yours watch television at all. Or, rather, sit down and watch something like American Idol. (Yes, I just mentioned that show.) But my point is that Idol is a reality show where people talk like individuals. If paying attention, a viewer can get a good grasp of how each person talks, and where their slang comes from. Each is unique. English may not have the rules that Japanese does, but ever person is (to use a well-used metaphor) a quilt, and individual language is a good way to get a sense of where we come from. I realize that's hard to translate, but the best way is to not throw in catchy words just because you can. This is dating the work that you are writing. In ten years, those words won't be used. And a lot of times, the original Japanese text used wasn't a slang word, just a well worn word like "Cool".
This is harder for me to tolerate than it might be for other people, because I have Communications in my background. I'm trained to pick up on verbal and nonverbal cues. To make matters worse, I went to school to be script writer. One of the lessons drilled into me by my professors was that we are all individuals; we chose to use words for specific reasons. I was also taught that it was a bad idea to use words that can be easily dated, such as slang. Keeping the work smart keeps it trendy and fashionable in a much more sneaky way. I'm not asking the authors to change what they do or how they do it, but, certainly, trying to find the best fit, rather than the best trendy thing to say, would be better.
Anyway, I thank you for hearing me out. I'm not trying to cause trouble, just point out a horrible flaw. It affects my ability to read the work. The more irritation I have from it, the less I want to read certain manga. How can that be helpful? Wouldn't it be more important to try to attract the most people on a regular basis, rather than a small number from a specific crowd for little bit of time?
P.S. This is not directed to a specific publisher... there are actually quite a few of that fall into this trap.
<center><hr width=75%></center>
Marcina Riley does not watch American Idol... often.
<center><hr width=75%></center>
The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.
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[Post 2]
Author : Ann Nichols
Date : Sep 15, 2006 02:12 pm
Title : Re: MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
True. You don't want to be too trendy. I have one of those MAD Magazine reprints of some of their material from the 1950s. One of the items was a translation from Shakespeare into what was the slang of the time. I had to read the original (provided in the book) to figure out what the slang meant.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[Post 3]
Author : Mike Sangregorio
Date : Sep 19, 2006 08:35 am
Title : Re: MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Ever think of doing an artilce on the Japanese only Transformers stuff? After we got tired of it over here in the 80s, the Japanese kept the show going and later added more than a few Manga stories. Just a thought.
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[Post 4]
Author : Marcina Riley
Date : Sep 24, 2006 12:17 am
Title : Re: MANGAMERICA #16: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Wow that brings up memories. I think they've aired some new stuff here actually. Thing is I'm not exactly sure where to start. It's like trying to do an article on the Xmen o.o I'd rather not do a general focus, something more personal. Of course, if we get too personal I'll start remember when I was 8 and balling in tears over optimuses death. (I really need to get that movie) Anyway, definitely a possibility. :)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The messages has been download from Comixfan Forums at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums at 05.10.2007 10:40:32