PDA

View Full Version : ONE-SHOTS #3: COMIC BOOK STEREOTYPES


raul grau
May 21, 2005, 04:50 pm
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/oneshots1.jpg" hspace=10 align=left border=0 alt="One-Shots logo">By Greg Thelen

Comic Book Stereotypes

The main problem with the comic book industry is that we're struggling to make ends meet. This is nothing new to anyone who has been following comics for at least the past decade, and there have been no shortage of ideas to save comics either. Usually those ideas center on better marketing of the product, through Free Comic Book Day (which is a fantastic idea), original graphic novels, movies, etc... These aren't bad ideas in and of themselves, but I think the problem runs deeper than better marketing can solve. My idea, for all I know, could not be new, but I haven't come across it before on the ether of the internet, so bear with me if this sounds familiar. The major problem with the comic book industry is simply one of image.

This image problem (for the record, I am not talking about Image Comics) is how American culture views the comic book industry. Mention comic books to the average American, and they'll picture Superman or Batman or Spider-Man or the X-Men or some other well-known superhero. Mention comic book fans to the average American, and they'll picture four-eyed emotionally adolescent nerds who live in their parents' basements playing Dungeons & Dragons all Friday night, because they can never get a date. Mention comic book stores to the average American, and they'll picture closet strip mall shops covered with superhero posters and filled with said nerds playing Dungeons & Dragons while talking about the latest issue of X-Men. And this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

But comic books weren't always about superheroes. Before 1953 superheroes were just one genre among many-a dying genre even-and, wonder of wonders, many girls used to read comics as well. Then a dreadful little book called The Seduction of Innocent by Fredric Wertham came along accusing comics of causing juvenile delinquency, which prompted a Senate Subcommittee investigation in 1954. This in turn prompted the creation of the self-censoring organization, The Comics Code Authority, which eventually destroyed many profitable comic book companies. In the end only superhero comics were able to squeeze through the CCA and still remain profitable, and, not surprisingly, the readership, which once numbered in the millions, dwindled down to whatever it is today. Newsstands no longer sold comics like they used to, and superhero fans could only get their fix through subscriptions or, more commonly, comic book stores. And for comic book stores to turn a profit, their racks carried mostly, if not entirely, superhero comics.

Of course, this is not a surprise to those of us in the know, but this is the cause of the image problem. Before Wertham's book the only image of the comic book reader was, at worst, a kid or a juvenile delinquent. That was it. They weren't nerds, they weren't living in their parents' basements, they weren't playing games all Friday night, and they weren't always male. But now, obviously, things are quite different, and we do nothing but perpetuate that stereotype, which is not unlike the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons, complete with snide remarks, priceless action figures still in their original boxes, and obscure sci-fi trivia, and that stereotype is not uncommon among comic book readers. Yes, it does not encompass everybody, but the general public can't see past the multitude who do. And, yes, not every comic book store is a dingy strip mall closet, nor are all comics about superheroes, but, again, the general public can't see that. So then the question becomes clear: how do we change that?

First, let's break down the problem into its three parts in order to come to a better understanding of what the possible solution or solutions could be.

1. Comic books are all about superheroes.
2. Comic book stores are dingy strip mall closets that cater to superhero fans.
3. Comic book readers are nerds who read superhero comics and live in their parents' basements playing games because they can't get dates.

The first part can be remedied by simply pointing out non-superhero comics, like Art Spiegelman's Maus, Will Eisner's A Contract With God, or Neil Gaiman's The Sandman. But still the stereotype of comics will inevitably continue because where can one go to find these great titles? A bookstore perhaps, but what will surround The Sandman in the Graphic Novel section of Barnes & Noble? Trades of Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, the X-Men, etc... If they go to a comic book store looking for greater variety, they'll just see more of the same, and they'll come away thinking The Sandman is more of an aberration than a reflection of comic books. So that will not solve anything.

The second part (as I've noted earlier) is a result of the CCA. When only one genre can turn a profit, and when comic book stores are already having tough times making ends meet, they are going to go with what sells, and what sells are superhero comics. Sure, most stores will carry titles like 100 Bullets or Preacher, but they will have seven times as many superhero comics-if not more. And the only way to remedy this, to even out the market, is for non-superhero comics to sell as many copies as Superman or Spider-Man. Now considering that the average comic book reader spends copious amounts of money buying superhero comics, and that they're not about to give up reading the majority of their favorite titles, then there's only two other people who can make up the difference: the comic book reader who doesn't buy every X-book on the rack with some extra cash to spare or new readers. This is where better marketing would come in handy, but even with good marketing for smaller companies, these people probably won't be able to find Blankets or DEMO in their local comic book store, which caters to the superhero crowd. Could they order the comics they wanted from their local store? Yes, in theory, but most likely not.

This is another part of the problem with comic book shops. They have an unwelcoming air about them. I recall Joe Casey once comparing comic book shops to porno stores. Only the people who really want to go to them will dare to enter their doors. The average non-reader may feel intimidated to enter Hank's Comic Shack at the back of a local strip mall where the aisles are narrow, posters cover the wall, nerds huddle in the back playing a new rpg, and the store clerk may not be all that friendly. Yes, this doesn't describe all comic book shops, and it definitely doesn't describe mine, but, unfortunately, when I visit shops elsewhere, this stereotype is right on the money. These stores are practically kicking new readers out the door before they even enter. They are practically little kids' rooms where only a special clique of cohorts is socially permitted to enter. They might as well have a secret password.

As if that weren't bad enough, it is difficult to even find a comic book store. If a new reader wanted to find a greater variety of comics than those offered in bookstores, then the chances of him or her actually finding a store is, perhaps, slim at best. What if some comic suddenly broke into the national consciousness like The Death of Superman or the 9/11 tribute books? Bookstores don't generally carry recently released comics, and most people are more comfortable shopping in a physical (rather than a digital) store. But you aren't likely to find a comic book shop out in the smaller cities of America. For instance, when I moved to Billings, MT eight years ago, there were at least three comic book stores in this city of about 80,000. Now, this city's population is nearing 100,000, yet there's only one shop left in town. In the entire state of Montana, I don't think there are more than three shops. Granted, this is Montana, and not all of the blame can be placed on the stereotype of these shops, but it's very telling of the state of comic book stores-and the comic book industry-when there's a need for a comic book shop locator.

So the problem with comic book shops is really threefold: they cater to the superhero readers, they're uninviting for potential new readers, and they're few and far between. This can be remedied by fixing the image of the comic book store. In theory, an inviting comic book shop, where the clerk greets each new customer with a hearty "Hello," the store is wide and open, and the walls show some wall, would make the shop and its product more profitable. Just look at any other small business and see how they present themselves. The ones making money are the ones that look nice and uncluttered. A person can walk into that store without feeling intimidated, find what they want, and if they can't, ask the clerk to order it without feeling intimidated. These businesses can grow and expand, maybe even open a new location across town. They will become recognizable and trusted within their community for quality service, and they may branch out into other cities and states. But here's another problem with comic book shops: there's no national chain for comics. Go across the country, and if you pass a McDonald's, you know where to get a hamburger; pass a Barnes & Noble, and you know where to buy a book; pass a Sam Goody, and you know where to find CDs. Comics don't have that, at least not on a national scale. Still, there's no guarantee that new readers would dare enter Hank's Comic Shack because of part three: the nerds.

And this is the crux of my argument, and I know that I will likely incur the wrath of many who read this when I say that the image of the comic book reader prevents comics from succeeding. Even so, please hear me out first.

The third part of the image problem is the most critical, because this is the human face of comics. Regardless of what is between the covers of Superman or behind the doors of Hank's Comic Shack, the image of the comic book reader-who reads superhero comics, argues about the continuity of the DC universe, dresses up as the Flash when it's not Halloween, plays the latest rpg in his parents' basement, and can't get a date to save his life-this is what resonates with people the most. This image is uncool. It's not hip, not sheik, never in vogue. Potential new readers will be deterred by this image because who wants to be uncool? I don't mean to suggest that we should all get a makeover, change our wardrobe, and drastically alter who we are. We need not stop loving our superheroes or action figures, but we can tone it down a little. We don't have to look or act like jocks or preppies or gangstas or punks, but maybe give that Wolverine t-shirt a rest every once in a while. Maybe don't recite verbatim obscure Star Wars quotes or trivia as a means of showing off. Maybe go out to someplace other than a comic book shop and do something else other than play Dungeons & Dragons all night. Maybe even ask that young woman you've had your eye on out for a date. Whatever part of the stereotype you embody, try to go against that. I know I might sound pretentious or elitist, but I will readily admit that I fit the stereotype as well at one point, and I still fit parts of it today. But this image, I argue, is at the root cause of the current ills of the comic book industry. This stereotype buys only superhero comics at comic book shops covered in superhero posters, and this stereotype is practically the only customer for said comic book shops, so said comic book shops caters to this stereotype, and so on. It's the ouroboros, the snake eating its own tail. Eventually, it'll devour itself.

And this needs to change for comics to survive. Notice that I am not criticizing superheroes as a genre, or the pricing of comics (which if they were sold in greater numbers would decrease their prices), or Marvel, or DC, or anyone else, other than us. I don't believe that there's any one way to get rid of this stereotype, but it may just be the little things that matter. Try reading The Sandman during your lunch break at work, or pointing out that "manga" is Japanese for comics, or writing serious papers deconstructing Maus at school (like I did). I believe little things like these, if done in great numbers by those of us passionate about comics, who know that comics are art and literature at the same time, could go a long way in changing the image of comic book readers. It won't happen over night or in a month or a year, but it can happen.

So what could happen if the stereotype was changed? The comic book market could return to 1953. It might not be considered nerdy or juvenile to read comics. More people could go to comic book shops and demand non-superhero comics, and those comics could be just as profitable as superhero comics. The shops could move out of their dingy strip mall closets into better-lit and more spacious buildings, maybe even expand. Maybe a national chain would emerge. Maybe more non-superhero publishers would be able to turn better profits, publish more books, and even out the market. Maybe, just maybe, comics could be saved.

Yes, this is pure speculation on my part, and even if the stereotype were to change to a more positive one, there is no guarantee that the industry will be in any better shape than it is now. Availability of comics is critical, obviously, but even if comics are widely available, that stigma of comics will persist unless we do something to change it. Often, so many of us are willing to criticize Marvel, DC, or something else for the decline of comics, but we forget that we buy their products. They do listen to their fans, but they listen to the bottom line more. If Western comics suddenly became the most profitable genre in comics, then Marvel and DC would release 30 Western comics each month. That doesn't mean that Marvel and DC need to diversify their comics (they are niche publishers) any more than Def Jam Records needs to produce country albums, but those other publishers (Top Shelf, AiT/PlanetLar, Oni Press, etc...) need more support to even reasonably compete with the Big Two. This also doesn't mean that we need to buy more titles if we can't afford them, but that we need to bring new people into this industry. And comic book retailers must make their shops more inviting to the potential new reader, but they're businesses too, and they respond to what's making money. In other words, they respond to us, and we can change them. Free Comic Book Day is a great start, but we need to keep going. We need to make reading comics acceptable, if not attractive.

But it all starts with us.

<center><hr width=75%></center>

Greg Thelen is trying to make a career off his imagination with his writing. You can send your hate mail to gambit at catharsis dot org.

<center><hr width=75%></center>

One-Shots is an ongoing, revolving column, ready and willing for your contributions. Please read over our <a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=32883" target="_blank">guidelines</a> first, and then send your submissions to Raul Grau at columns@comixfan.cjb.net.

The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.

Radiate
May 21, 2005, 05:15 pm
Great column and some very valid points.I've tried over the years to validate comic books but to no avail.

However,i think in this new day and age we're one more step to making comic books acceptable and not branded as 'dingy comic book geeks' etc.With comics books now dominating the movie industry giving them more credence,and more popularity with shows like The O.C comics are actually becoming 'cool'.

RADIATE!

WildWorks
May 21, 2005, 05:29 pm
I know I will get grilled for it. I will understand from other people's response and learn from it. So, don't get too mad at me.

I still feel I have a problem with the stereotype in comic book collector. I went to a convention in Toronto a few years ago. Waited in line to get an autograph for Darick Robertson, the person in front annoyed me, he's like a fat, bearded, and probably nerdy person. He had every issue of Transmet. Knowing Darick Robertson's reputation as a nice guy, he sketched everyone's Wolverine #1(MK), which I don't mind. What annoyed me with the guy was that I thought he was done, but he also decided to take a pic with him. Still angers me to this day seeing these type of comic book collectors. I know I am somewhat of an impatient person. Go things fast.
I don't like being associated with people like that. Mind you, I'm just a skinny guy, but knowledgable in the mainstream comics(Marvel and DC) :)
Another thing I don't like is people asking, "when is this comic coming out" and blah blah. New Avengers and GL: Rebirth are two titles that have annoyed me. It's like a "life or death" within these two books. :P
I guess some people don't have access to the Internet. I tend to wait things out and not ask too much questions nowadays.
The positive thing is that no one asks me about comics, which is a good thing.
I am feeling that I might be "riding in the sunset" as a comic collector soon. Like all things come to an end. I want to quit because I feel worried about the stereotype in comics, but also it's the money aspect as cover prices have and will rise up(next month). The stereotype is more of a second thing as the economic is more of a priority.
I understand that comics is becoming "cool" thanks to the movies and TV. I still feel worried about the stereotype/typecast in comic collecting.
I guess that's all I can think for now.

Rory
May 21, 2005, 05:34 pm
Great column. Sad but true.

Thankfully my comic store is quite a big shop with nice people and not located in a strip mall

Its also very hard to try and get people interested because you have to make sure they won't freak out and think you are pathetic and also if they show some interest you have to convince them to pay 3.50 for each one.

At the moment I actaully have no friends that are interested in comics :sigh:

Radiate
May 21, 2005, 05:49 pm
I on the other hand actually have one close friend who's into comics and knows more DC stuff than i did,which surprised me.And i got my best friend,who's a HOT girl,who's into comics too...well she just reads them.And we live in ENgland as well,so you know very unique:D

RADIATE!

Dylan McKay
May 21, 2005, 05:52 pm
One thing I've noticed is that bookstores don't carry much in the way of superhero books. I know my local bookstore's graphic novel section carries more American Splendor, King, Jimmy Corrigan etc than it does Superman or X-Men...

The other side of things is that because the quality comic shops do better business, they are more likely to survive. So in time, the state of shops should improve. Also one problem with shops is that most shop owners are fanboys/girls at heart, and thus want a superhero haven. But the modern comics fan grew up in a post Alan Moore/Frank Miller comics world, and could very well be Vertigo fanboys/girls, which would greatly change the nature of the shop.

Just some thoughts. I know, when I read a comic on the bus, I almost always read non-superhero ones. I do get funny looks when I laugh. It was somewhat awkward with Filler Bunny, as if I showed someone they'd likely try to hurt me for tainting their brain.

Rory
May 21, 2005, 05:57 pm
I on the other hand actually have one close friend who's into comics and knows more DC stuff than i did,which surprised me.And i got my best friend,who's a HOT girl,who's into comics too...well she just reads them.And we live in ENgland as well,so you know very unique:D

RADIATE!

Does your friend know that you think she's hot cause if she was on this site and saw what you said well :blush: could be embarrsing

Ireland has few hot comic girls. That I know of anyway ;)

Radiate
May 21, 2005, 06:04 pm
Lol!Yeah she knows i think she's hot,but you know she's not my type lol!

It's really cool though cos my own school library has comic books in it.And it's a private school no doubt.I just think perhaps the times are changing for comics.

RADIATE!

bravelybravesirrobin
May 21, 2005, 06:19 pm
Hmmm, I agree with the general purpose and argument of the collumn but a few points.


Firstly, I have never experienced the stereotypical dingy poorly lit out of the way comic shop. Forbidden Planet, Travelling Man, OK Comics and Comicville (all 4 of which have stores in the City of Leeds and these are the only stores I've ever been to) are well lit, admittedly covered in posters but they eschew long boxes for open faced displays, are clean, generally staffed by non-comic readers (includign many girls) who are friendly and helpful. Have a big open window so people can see in and.... it's inetresting to note that both Forbidden Planet and Travelling Man ARE national comic chains. They have multiple stores up and down the country (including I believe Scotland Ireland and Wales as well as England).

So unless comic-reading is more pronounced in Britain than America (and I doubt it) I don't think the shop actually makes a huge difference. Sure an approachable location will amke more people more likely to wander in, but to wander in they still need to be thinking "maybe I should buy some comics" or "I want some comics" and the missing link here is advertising.

Get people talking about a book and it will sell. Sandman proves this, Endless Nights got a phenomenal amount of coverage in newspapers and it sold really, really well.

Rory
May 21, 2005, 06:31 pm
Radiate:Wish my school had that.

I actually learn more from one comic then I do from a full weeks English lesson

Colonel Cortez
May 21, 2005, 06:53 pm
Gambit rmc, you should try Other World by Phil Jimenez. I learned more looking up the Gaelic words in that then I do in a month's worth of Irish classes. I sholud probably stop falling asleep... :sleep: :)

Rory
May 21, 2005, 07:11 pm
Good idea.I sure do suck at Irish :dunce: .

Useless subject.Whats the point? :dunno:

Colonel Cortez
May 21, 2005, 07:24 pm
Yeah, I've just stopped trying at it now.;)

I'm lucky in that I have at least one friend who's into comics, though he 's more into Ennis's stuff than anything I like.

Rory
May 21, 2005, 07:32 pm
I go for the more mainstream stuff :yes:

I had a friend who got me interested in them but then he drifted off thinking they were too expensive :razz:

Now I'm all alone :lonely:

KenB3
May 21, 2005, 07:47 pm
Why does the tone of this article repeatedly slam gamers? It says how comics are unfairly stereotyped as nerdy, and then you do the same thing to Dungeons and Dragons like four times. WTF?

Also, I don't exclusively read superheroes, but what's wrong with superhero comics? Like you're so much cooler for reading 100 Bullets or Y the Last Man? What, you think your Alan Moore trades would bring the women, if only those Spiderman fans weren't :bleep: blocking you?

This whole article is irritating. It's "we're in a hobby that other people think is nerdy. Let me slam on a few things that REALLY are nerdy, and then propose we all change to get the approval of cool people." How about the comic companies and stores worry about how to bring people in, and the guys who like comics just do what makes them happy?

James Groves
May 21, 2005, 08:05 pm
What is wrong with being true to yourself? People should be happy with who and what they are, as long as it is not detrimental to your physical and mental (perhaps even spiritual?) self. I disagree with the third part of the column for basically only this reason. Why should someone feel obligated to tone down who they are? Or what makes them happy or gives them enjoyment? Again, it's about conformity and i personally think :bleep: conformity. I'd rather be happy with myself first, than making sure i'm cochure for everybody else around me.

Very good column though. Very well written, mate. I guess that's the core point i disagree on. :)

Ken Boehm
May 21, 2005, 11:03 pm
I have no problem being who you want to be, but for God's sake, comb your hair. It doesn't hurt to shave irregular beards either. I just wish some of the people who read comics would just try and clean themselves up and have some direction in their lives, as opposed to using comics to truly escape the world entirely and shut down everything else. I just hate looking at people who truly see Wednesday as the most important days, and have no brass ring they want to achieve other than getting that newest issue of Fathom.

A comic store can be just as accomodating to newcomers as it is to the hardcore fans. Instead of keeping up years old posters on the windows and making the place smell like smoke, turn on some lights and try to run the store like a business, not just a hobby.

WildWorks
May 21, 2005, 11:55 pm
Man, I agree with it :)
But man, I had a run-in with a comic fan last Summer at a convention, I think because he thought I budded in line, but I had my bro save my spot. :P
Combing your hair. Well, let's say that guy's hair was way slicked. :) This was over getting an autograph by George Perez. :P
I kinda worry myself for being a comic collector because people get jealous or complain about things like wanting to meet their "idol." I feel like quitting comics cause of people being morons.
At conventions, I sometimes chat with strangers(not so much the geek types) about comics and joke about it. Some who are not long-time collectors, like newcomers.
Well, I waited in line for Azzarello's autograph, but there were alot of ppl getting Quesada's autograph, I talked to one of the guys and they were nice. The funny thing was that the guys in front of me were last in line for Quesada. Then there was this hot chick who wanted her DD: Father #1 autographed, but she was too late to get in line. I was like, damn. :) I like that unknown people would be willing to help someone. I think I was joking to the guy about the chick. :)

Wednesday mornings haven't been a problem for me. It's become a tradition for me now because I keep going, but also to keep the owner and their employees know me better than just a customer. Poke fun at other things outside of comics. Usually talk about politics, sports and tv shows. No sign of stereotype or anything.
The only problem for Wednesday new comics are that customers/collectors have no patiences. The employees are still counting comics and they try to put it on the shelves. In turn, the people tend to be in their way when putting the comic on the shelf.
When I go for Wednesday comics, the majority of the customers I see in the morning at late 20 to 30 year olds and parents(I see a dad bring their baby kid) that buy the comics. I don't see alot of younger people buy comics....well, probably because I don't check the afternoons or evenings.
It's just crazy.

[QUOTE=Ken Boehm]I have no problem being who you want to be, but for God's sake, comb your hair. It doesn't hurt to shave irregular beards either. I just wish some of the people who read comics would just try and clean themselves up and have some direction in their lives, as opposed to using comics to truly escape the world entirely and shut down everything else. I just hate looking at people who truly see Wednesday as the most important days, and have no brass ring they want to achieve other than getting that newest issue of Fathom.

Janne Pietikainen
May 22, 2005, 02:17 am
I've tried over the years to validate comic books but to no avail.

I've noticed that too. They do read them but won't buy them themselves. Of course, it's hard to find anything in Finland so that might be one reason. Whenever I go to Helsinki, I take some friends with me to comic shop, to show it around.

Dylan McKay
May 22, 2005, 02:34 am
I just don't feel the need to brush my hair to go buy comics. I brush my hair other times...

Although I often have it short enough that in needs no brushing.

tormented_spawn
May 22, 2005, 02:41 am
Comic book readers are nerds who read superhero comics and live in their parents' basements playing games because they can't get dates.
Those nerds who read superhero comics and can't get dates but don't live in their parents' basement, probably saying "what losers, living on their parent's basement, now I'll play with my lightsabre and stroke my wookie." :giggle:

Also, I don't exclusively read superheroes, but what's wrong with superhero comics? Like you're so much cooler for reading 100 Bullets or Y the Last Man?
Nope not cooler, just have better taste. BAHAHA!!! :mwahaha:

At least one comics store I go to have staff members who are nice. If more comicbook clerks are nice maybe people new to comics can go buy a comic without being feared of being harass or whatever.

Movies like Sin City, will probably change people minds about comics, hopefully V for Vendetta the movie can do that.

lilacsigil
May 22, 2005, 03:27 am
I just wish some of the people who read comics would just try and clean themselves up and have some direction in their lives, as opposed to using comics to truly escape the world entirely and shut down everything else.
That's not comics. That's hobbyists. Personally, I would be thrilled to see someone else in my rural town who liked escapism via reading and imagination rather than through getting drunk and crashing their cars.
My other hobbies are female-dominated one, of papercrafts and embroidery. There's just as many sad, scary, unkempt embroiderers and scrapbookers out there as that type of comic fans. Maybe they should get together? Or maybe that's a bad idea.

The suggestions about treating your comic reading like your book reading - writing about it at college, discussing it with friends, reading it in public, taking it to your bookclub, giving it to kids for their birthdays - are great.
The ideas on image rehabilitation? Every "club" likes to be exclusive, even if their exclusivity is entirely based on negative factors. Spread the comic-love, not the nerd-hate.

Ovid
May 22, 2005, 11:00 am
I sympathise with the idea that everyone should be able to 'be themselves', but sometimes people adopt geeky styles deliberately to set themselves off from others. Case in point: here (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showpost.php?p=1017834&postcount=5). (That's just an example of an attitude I suspect is common. I'm not trying to get at anyone.) I don't see such autosegregation as 'being yourself'. I see it as falling victim to the prejudice, not opposing it.

Admittedly in my school there wasn't much competition between 'jocks' and 'geeks'. (The school was crap at sport, and everyone wore uniform so we all looked like dorks.) If you do suffer bullying through most of the day, I can understand the desire to club together, shut people out and seek a 'haven' in a comic store. But it's not good for the comic industry, and what's bad for the industry is bad for the fanboys in the long run.

While I enjoy superhero comics, I think Greg is right that we need to broaden our buying habits. Part of the problem is continuity (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=33009). It encourages the kind of pedantry that gives fanboys a bad name. If comics were more like novels, in that new characters lived a story through to its conclusion and no further, maybe people would be more interested. I'm not making an 'accessibility' argument here. Most comics nowadays don't require huge knowledge of continuity. It's just that the existence of continuity panders to a mentality amongst the comic-buying public which contributes to its bad image.

Jim Lemoine
May 23, 2005, 10:21 am
The problem with this very well-written and studiously thought-out column is that it perpetuates the stereotype by assuming it's true. I know a lot of comic book readers who fit the stereotype, who are messy, single, and generally smell very bad. I also know a lot of other comic book readers who are attractive, married, and generally smell quite nice. And while some of them might meet for games of Munchkin et. al. every Friday night, they spend the rest of their weeks going to work, seeing their significant others, brushing their hair, and being generally decent people, just like a non-comic-book reading soul.

When comic book readers themselves acknowledge this stereotype as truth, what do you expect the rest of the world to do?

But then, I'm not a comic book reader, so I might not know what I'm talking about anymore.

tormented_spawn
May 23, 2005, 12:12 pm
If you are not a comic book reader, Jim, I'm curious, what are you doing here? Researching about us comicbook nuts? What the project's name, "Steps on how to never get laid." BAHAHA!!! :mwahaha:

AngelinLeather
May 23, 2005, 03:13 pm
Comic shops are very unwelcoming to women. Last one I went into the second I walked in everyone stopped talking and stated at me. Then I tried to join in their conversation about X2 and the guy the clerk was talking to just looked away and neaither of them said anything. Maybe they were thinking because Im a woman I didnt know jack about comics but I have been collecting since I was 7, like most people. So from that point on I just didn't try to make any conversation with them and since Ive moved just buy comics of a bookstore rack (which also is due to the fact there arent any within driving distance of me).

tormented_spawn
May 23, 2005, 10:48 pm
I feel sorry for you, AngelinLeather. Well, get those people back by getting all your girlfriends and drop into the store. Those nerds will be like "EEeehhhh!!! They have soiled our sanctuary!!! I cannot go in till those females leave!!!" :mwahaha:

Ovid
May 24, 2005, 03:59 am
I feel sorry for you, AngelinLeather. Well, get those people back by getting all your girlfriends and drop into the store. Those nerds will be like "EEeehhhh!!! They have soiled our sanctuary!!! I cannot go in till those females leave!!!" :mwahaha:
I feel sorry for the people who froze AngelinLeather out. Anyone with so few social skills should be pitied.

I'm not sure about making comics acceptable by making them more literary. Clancy isn't legitimized by writing in the same medium as Joyce. If you look at markets where comics are acceptable, such as the European Continent and Japan, they follow standard pulp genres and are often semi- or entirely pornographic.

EDIT: Rather like Joyce, as a matter of fact...

tormented_spawn
May 24, 2005, 04:08 am
I felt sorry for AngelinLeather, cause this kind of crap happens to her but yeah, Ovid, I pity those fools!!! Let's all pity those fools!!! :razz:

Phasmal
May 24, 2005, 05:30 pm
This column is misled by the notion that all eyes are on us comics lovers. If the comic book geeks started bathing, combing, and wearing normal clothes, people wouldn't know they were comics fans! People aren't whipping out their notepads to jot down what a geek looks like on a patiular day, and they won't notice when he starts looking better. The posters all over the wall may very well be intimidating, but I really don't think there's much of a problem once the people are actually INSIDE the shop.

If you ask me, I think we are at the cusp of much greater acceptance due to the massive amount of trades and movies. Image is not the problem, since everyone in America is perfectly okay about going to see the latest superhero movie. The problem is accessibility. Would you want to test a book out if you knew there were 450 previous issues' worth of content that can be brought up at any time?

I can think of three things that would definately help comics crossover:

1. Get more well-known novelists like Orson Scott Card and Brad Meltzer to write comics, so fans can follow them over. Chuck Palanuik(Fight Club ) and Stephen King would also be great choices.

2. Make more self-contained OGNs and mini-series TPBs that tell you everything you need to know and give a complete story. When a new X-Men novel comes out, they have to reintroduce all characters, powers, and conflicts. Any commercially successful TPB must do the same.

3. Find a way to convince bookstores to put OGNs and TPBs at the front of the store, or mixed in with regular book at least a little more. Wouldn't it be great to see someone look for the latest from Tom Clancy and find Sleeper or Mystique ? That's how you get people interested.

To wrap up, nothing will get much better as long as die-hard fans are still talking about leaving comics because "everything must come to an end." Do you really think people say, "Well, I've been listening to music/reading books/ watching movies for a long time now, and I guess it's time to let it go." We'll finally succeed when comics can become as much a way of life as any other form of entertainment.

Ovid
May 24, 2005, 08:40 pm
Format's a problem, too. The pamphlet format was fine when comics were ephemera, but that's no longer true. They're too good quality to throw away, too fragile to keep in good condition (without special equipment like boards) and too difficult to store. They send out a confusing signal to anyone not already familiar with the industry.

In Continental Europe and Japan, comics are generally sold either in large, high-quality hardback form or in small, novel-sized books. These fit easily onto a bookshelf and are easy to find from the titles on the spine. Unlike pamphlets, they can be sold in the same way as normal books and look familiar to non-comic book readers.

Not that I'm saying pamphlets should be abolished. I rather like them. But I also think they're a barrier to new readers.

Ryan Day
May 25, 2005, 12:26 am
Format's a problem, too. The pamphlet format was fine when comics were ephemera, but that's no longer true. They're too good quality to throw away, too fragile to keep in good condition (without special equipment like boards) and too difficult to store. They send out a confusing signal to anyone not already familiar with the industry.

One of the biggest problems, one which contributes to this, is that too many people still consider comics to be a hobby. Floppies are still around, in part, because they're deemed "collectible". Marvel & DC go to great lengths to point out how limited their print runs are, and how they sell out and you can't get another copy unless they decide to re-print.

This, of course, is stupid. Can you imagine Random House declaring that their best-selling book is "sold out"? Or that it has a limited print run and if you don't get your copy now, you may not get it at all? Variant covers are another aspect of this - hey, pay more money and get the exact same content with another cover!

So we get these bizarre monthly floppies, also published out of habit; because apparently people will spend $2.50 a month for 6 months, but not $18 every few months for exactly the same content. Floppies are a kind of anachronism: Flashy, colourful paper, yet flimsy and wrought with annoying ads for video games and the WWF.

Far too much of the comics industry is dedicated to this hobbyist mentality and a general obsession with history and tradition. This is not only stupid, but frustrating - comics are an incredible creative medium, yet the big players in the industry just keep working on these bizarre and insignificant aspects.

Ovid
May 25, 2005, 07:38 am
FMI: what's a strip mall? It sounds kind of rude. :howudoin: