THE COMIX-TEN #15: TOP 10 SHOCKING MOMENTS IN COMICS

[Joel Phillips]

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/comix10_logo.gif" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">The Top 10 Shocking Moments in Comics

Writers: Nick Costanzo, Robin Lewis, James Groves, Jon Hancock and Raul Grau
Editor: Joel Phillips

Shocking moments and comic books just naturally go together. We can praise the medium for its tendency to traffic in the fantastic, the horrific and the sensational, taking us along on a mental and emotional roller coaster as we see things far beyond the possibilities our own experiences. Conversely, we can decry the medium for resorting to “shock tactics” in place of story, jerking us around in an effort to evoke a cheap substitute for genuine excitement. The dual nature of “shocking” moments is what makes a list like this one so interesting. Is a moment shocking because it is unexpected? Gruesome? Galling? Appalling? Does “shocking” mean a moment is good or bad? Can it be both? Can it be neither?

Keeping in mind everything that could constitute a “shocking” moment, good or bad, we gathered five of our writers and asked them for their picks for the Top 10 Shocking Moments in Comics.

NOTE TO ALL READERS: Because of the nature of this topic, the following lists contain spoilers. All the entry headings include a citation for the work the entry will discuss, so if you have not yet read the work in question, but are planning to and do not wish to be spoiled, you’ll want to go ahead and skip that entry.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/customavatars/avatar199_1.gif" align=left border=0 alt="Nick Costanzo">First up is Nick Costanzo, who is determined to get me in trouble with his #6 pick:

Honorable Mention: Girls Read Comics

Back at Nag's Head, NC this summer, I came upon a sight I thought only existed in the deepest of nerdy fantasies. The local comic book was occupied with more women than men. In fact, there were a LOT more women then men. I was the only one! Hell, since we were by the beach, several of these women were in bathing suits. So let’s recap. Girls, reading comics, in bikinis. Damn straight I was shocked.

#10: God is a Pansy (The Authority vol. 1 #12)

You know your list is gonna be hardcore when the death of God is at the bottom of the list. Anyway, in the pages of Warren Ellis' The Authority God is actually a big pyramid-shaped thing floating in space that has every intent of turning the Earth into a giant floating turd. Angie and Jenny's words, not mine. This thing de-terraforms half of Africa, sends giant tapeworms of doom to tear up most of Tokyo, and is so big that the Carrier (50 miles wide by 30 miles high) is forced to travel through its veins in order to get inside. So how do you stop a planet-destroying force such as this? Simple. Jenny Sparks snaps her fingers, and God's brain is overloaded, killing him instantly. Meanwhile, Satan is kicking himself for not trying that first. Who'd have thought God would be such a pushover?

#9: Gabe Ruins it for Everyone (Penny Arcade)

Back in 1999, Gabe did a huge disservice not only to his fellow geeks, but to men in general the world over. He pulled off the best damn proposal (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=1999-02-17) idea ever conceived. Ever. And he had quite a set of stones to post that not only for his girlfriend, but for the entire world to see. But then again, what better way to impress a girl than to express your love in front of thousands of viewers? More importantly, how can any of us compete with something like that?

And in case you're wondering, it worked out. Very well. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2004-09-13)

#8: The Authority Takes Control (The Authority vol. 2: Coup D'Etat)

I'm not terribly surprised that this happened... just that it happened now. I mean what with all this hyper-patriotism crap being shoved down our throats these days, it was rather shocking to see that not only did The Authority usurp control of the United States, but they did so after fabricating evidence against the President, then very publicly murdering him. How the hell did that get by the Patriot Act, and didn't DC cancel this book for being too controversial once already? Crazy, says I.

#7: RUTHIE!!! (The Milkman Murders #3)

Yeah, there may have been bloodier displays in comics before this, but I don't tend to read crap like that. All I know is that a staff member, who shall remain nameless, recommended this book. Oh and before I forget, Mitch Brown is a bastard.

In any case, here I go flipping through a book written by one of my favorite all-time comic book writers, only to see... holy crap, can I even describe it without getting banned? Let’s just say it involves lots of blood... and skin... and no bones... ew. Apparently if I had read the first two issues, the mindless slaughter of I found here would have made more sense, and even been welcomed. But as it stands... I'm just grossed out.

#6: You've Got to be Kidding Me... (Uncanny X-Men #410-443, X-Men #155-164)

There are bad comics. And then there's the stuff Chuck Austen wrote, and immediately called it X-Men. Near as I can tell, he did so in some attempt to destroy the franchise forever. What crime did Marvel’s merry band of mutants commit in order to deserve such a fate? We’ll likely never know for sure, though I can only guess that a bunch of cheer leaders caught Chuck reading X-Men back in high school, and the resulting taunts caused him to forever swear revenge. Whatever the reason, Holy War and the Draco proved to be the literary equivalent of jamming an ice pick into your eye, and when Joel Phillips (who’s read every issue of X-Men with the exception of the past few months’) tells you these are the worst X-Men stories EVER written, you know something is very painfully wrong. The mere fact that I can’t stomach Iceman anymore is enough to make this a very shockingly sad entry.

#5: Liar (Stormwatch: Team Achilles)

There have been a number of infamous names in comics, but you can say one thing about most of them. At least none of them faked their credentials in their rise to fame. And certainly, none of them would do something to dastardly as to fake military service as a way to justify the content of their work. Well, none except for the now quite book-less Micah Ian Wright. Wright was given deals to write not only Stormwatch: Team Achilles, but also wrote You Back the Attack, We’ll Bomb who we Want, a collection of reinterpreted propaganda posters from the early 20th century designed to poke fun at the world of today. All the while, he used his supposed time in the Army Rangers to justify how he, an “ex-Conservative”, became a staunch liberal after the horrors he witnessed in Panama. An experience which, after several REAL soldiers sent him some rather angry mail, was admitted to be completely false. Now, whatever merit may have existed within his works will be forever tarnished by this unnecessary and shameful lie, and will exist as a black eye not only for his future prospects, but the prospects of those whose names were attached to his books as well. The man even maintained his lie after letting Kurt Vonnegut write a forwarding piece in his book, for Christ’s sake. Any jobs Micah Ian Wright gets after this fiasco will be too good for him.

#4: Righteous Evil (X-Men: God Loves Man Kills)

The opening to Chris Claremont’s now legendary graphic novel sets the stage for the truly striking series of events that are to follow. A pair of black mutant children are hunted down by a force that could invade a small country, and are brutally killed, their bodies put on display as a trophy to the hate that is justified in the name of God Himself. The race of these children is not coincidental, throughout God Loves, Man Kills, Chris Claremont makes it clear that the oppression of mutants in the Marvel Universe is nothing less than an allegory to represent any group of people who’ve ever been unjustly shunned by society. In fact, this comparison is made brutally clear in one of the most angry statements we’ve ever heard young Kitty Pride utter. Probably the only thing more shocking than the opening is the end. But I won’t spoil it, in case you’ve been living under a rock or something and haven’t read it. *hint hint*

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/nickpick3.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#3: Adrian Veidt Saves the World (The Watchmen)

It’s an interesting concept: superheroes proactively changing the world, rather than simply protecting it from evil. And indeed, this is exactly what Ozymandias set out to do in Alan Moore’s brilliant The Watchmen. The world is on the brink of nuclear Armageddon, and everyone on the planet is preparing themselves for what they think to be their final days on earth. So how does one save the world from themselves? Adrian’s answer is surprisingly simple. He gives them all a common enemy. Of course, the execution of this idea is something entirely out of science fiction, but it’s the questions that come with this plan that are the most striking. Is world peace worth the price of human lives? Is peace born out of bloodshed permanent? And why is the only man who has a moral objection to all of this considered irreparably insane?

Do all of the “old-fashioned” superheroes need to be done away with to make the world a better place?

#2: Life Imitating Art (New X-Men #115)

I couldn’t help it. When those towers went down, one of the first images that came into my mind once I was sure my family and friends were ok was the now infamous scene of Genosha being destroyed in the pages of Grant Morrison’s New X-Men. In particular, the “Genosha Times Square” image struck me as particularly prophetic. I’m not saying that Grant Morrison or Frank Quitely were trying to foretell the future here or anything (though I don’t doubt Mr. Morrison has taken a substance or two that makes him think he can tell the future..), I just couldn’t shake that image out of my head. And somehow, it made everything that came out of Morrison’s run from that point on feel all the more real, and all the more frightening.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/nickpick1.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#1: Freedom (V for Vendetta)

Everyone knows the age-old saying that “you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone.” And never could that have been more true for poor Evey in the pages of Moore’s V for Vendetta. Caught red-handed in an attempt to kill the man who murdered her lover, she finds herself locked away in a hellish concentration camp, subjected to the worst tortures imaginable. Beaten, starved, manipulated; her captors attempt to destroy not only her body, but her mind and spirit as well. And yet, given the chance to free herself, she does not cave; she does not give up the whereabouts of the terrorist known only as V.

The shocks here are numerous. I'll not go into details for fear of spoiling the story. But the greatest shock of all is the lesson to be taught here. He shows her, as well as us all, what true freedom is. It is not simply the opposite of imprisonment, or even a state of happiness and lack of worry. Freedom is enlightenment, an empowerment of the soul that makes compromise unnecessary, fighting worthwhile, and death irrelevant. Freedom is a beautiful thing, and even now just thinking about that scene is enough almost to bring me to tears.

Rebuttals:
Robin: Obviously you get kudos for including the Watchmen moment I have at my number one spot. The Micah Wright thing is a good pick, too. Never really liked the God Loves, Man Kills story, though. Don't know why, just never seemed to click with me. I don't like being preached at much. Oh, and you're a big softie for including that Penny Arcade moment.
James: Two nods towards The Authority are off set by three references to the X-Men and whilst I would normally climb all over that in a list such as this, your X-Men choices are all valid and very poignant. Coupled with references to V for Vendetta and Watchmen, this is an excellent list Nick, all the more so for your put down of Chuck Austen and those shocking issues of Uncanny X-Men.
Jon: Let's see...Mandatory Austen bashing, trademark over the top rant, plenty of X-Men picks, pimping of obscure web comic. Lord loves a formula right Nick. I mean the only way you could pander to the voters more would be promising to cut taxes, fight the war on terror and improve living standards for every single citizen.
Raul: I can only hope that the backlash of religious fanatics driven mad by your glorification of the death of God (that most geometric of deities), outweighs the influx of votes you receive for sneaking in some Austen-bashing. However, the saddest thing about your list is the sheer number of events that were done first by Rob Liefeld of all people. He proposed to his then girlfriend in comic book form (an actual paper comic book at that), he explicitly depicted an air attack on the World Trade Center... and you just know that anything first done by Liefeld must have been a terrible idea.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/images/avatars/captainbritain.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="Robin Lewis">Next up is Robin Lewis, who is determined to class up the joint:

It isn't often comics can elicit a visible reaction in a reader. Films have it easy. Spooky music, flash of light, crash of thunder, etc. Comics do have one advantage, though. They are drip fed to us, building up stories over years, and can subtly direct our attention over here when really we should be looking over here. When done correctly, the eventual unmasking of the surprise can be worth a hundred cheap thriller flicks. Here are the ones that have stayed with me. Warning: this list contains more spoilers than you can shake a stick at.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/robinpick10.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#10: The Death of Siadwell Rhys (Zenith, Phase I)

I was introduced to Grant Morrison pretty early in life through the pages of Britain’s peerless SF anthology 2000AD. He gave the world one of its greatest superheroes: Zenith. A spoiled brat with a number one album, a flashy haircut and enough power to flatten a mountain. His first outing saw him take on a revivified Nazi superhuman possessed by a Lovecraftian god from beyond. Among his allies were a hippy guru turned Conservative MP, an ex-fashion model who can manipulate electricity, and a fat Welsh publican who used to be able to fly, punch through steel and burn anything he saw. He was Siadwell Rhys. He was a great character, and Morrison built up our affection for him, showing us how he overcame a drinking problem to regain his powers, making him human, flawed and most of all likable. In the climatic battle, Rhys saves a friend and is poised to kill the Nazi scumbag, when, in the space of two small panels, the Nazi turns him to ash and bone. "What a shame. I think I've broken him. Who's next?" says the evil Nazi bastard. I read it and thought, 'Hang on, that can't be right. They wouldn't just kill him. Surely.....'. I didn't know Grant Morrison. Rhys was a new favorite character of mine, and to see him casually butchered like that shook the teenager I was back then to the core. Which was, of course, the point. Casual, brutal, unforgettable. Grant Morrison had made his first impression on my youthful mind. It wasn't his last.

#9: The Guy in the Circular Tub (Uzumaki #1)

In recent years, Japanese horror has hit the mainstream public consciousness in a big way. Manga is no exception, and gave me the number nine in this list. The Uzumaki serial is about the spiral. The shape, the line, and the places we see it in nature, and what happens when a small town becomes possessed by it. What's that you say? Spirals aren't scary? Au contraire, my friend. They're terrifying, especially when in the hands of a master of mood and surrealism like Junji Ito. In the three volumes of his story we see a young girl and her closest friend as they struggle to understand what is happening to their home and the people around them. Bodies twist out of shape, curves take on a sinister aspect, and their loved ones start to succumb to the forces that lie below the surface of the once-tranquil town. The first episode really goes for the jugular, as a slow build up leads to possibly the single most disturbing page of comic-art I've ever seen. A man, the father of our heroines best friend, has become obsessed with the form of the spiral, and is starting to twist himself with unnatural power. Eventually, he twists his entire body into a low tub, his body spiraling in on itself, fingers interlocking, tongue protruding, a mass of boneless flesh wound around and around inside a tub. It's a truly horrible and shocking moment when we see his body. Incredibly rare in a comic, it actually manages to make you scared.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/robinpick8.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#8: The Man of Steel Sells Out (The Dark Knight Returns)

Faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, defender of truth, justice and the American Way! What a crock. Here's Superman in his most memorable incarnation. A good little soldier-boy, doing whatever Uncle Sam tells him, sitting up and smiling like a good lapdog should. Batman, of course, is having none of it. Superman's moral feet of clay are shown to us in graphic detail, and then his reputation as the most fearsome fighting force on the planet is whittled away as we watch him humbled before the Dark Knight. Beaten by a man, a God who chose to compromise when he should have stood firm. The image of most famous superhero in the world, a symbol for virtue and bravery, is turned to ash. Perhaps the most shocking thing is that it all feels so right. Superman was always too good to be true, and the discovery that he was itching to be the hired help of a corrupt government pleases the cynic in me.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/robinpick7.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#7: Shocking Doesn't Really Cover It (Cerebus: Reads)

Usually the shocks in a comic will come in the form of an unmasking. X turns out to have been Y all along, and now the heroes must rally and save the day. But what happens when the author chooses to unmask himself? Dave Sim had been circling around controversy for a long time, with readers leaving amid cries that they loved the comic, but hated the increasingly eccentric figure they saw writing it. They hadn't seen anything yet. In the space of one issue Sim laid out for all to see his inner thoughts, and in the process of doing so left his readership gaping open-mouthed. I guess you might get the same feeling if one of your close friends one day starts telling you that he's always wondered whether the aliens who kidnapped him five years ago were ever going to come back. What? What did you just say? Are you kidding? But Sim wasn't kidding. You tried to tear your eyes away from the page but it held you with horrifying fascination. It colored everything that came after it, and put Sim on the path to becoming the pariah he is today. Some people might argue that misogyny has always been rife in comics (with some justification), but it's never been so plainly stated as this.

#6: Cassidy Turns Out to be Just Another F***er (Preacher)

I have this friend. He's Irish, and can charm the birds from the trees with not much more than a twinkle of his eye and a few words in that lilting brogue. Cassidy charmed me in the same way (though there are some differences: my friend doesn't drink blood or possess a nifty healing factor). He was funny, good company, and made you think: "Here's a guy you can rely on". Jesse Custer thought the same thing. Through almost all his adventures Cassidy was there by his side, fighting the good fight, the loyal friend who'd die for his friend. And then he got drunk one night and made a pass at Tulip. It felt bad, in the same way that watching a friend make a mistake feels bad. He sobered up, realized what a fool he'd been, and begged forgiveness. And then he did it again. This wasn't right. This wasn't the guy we'd come to know and trust. Then, when Jesse died, Cassidy seized his chance, taking Tulip into the darkness of a drug-induced haze with him. Eventually, Jesse and Tulip were reunited, and Jesse set about discovering the truth about the man he'd thought was his amigo. The truth wasn't pretty. Alcoholism, beating up women, using and abusing those who trust him; Cassidy turned into the lowest kind of scum before our eyes.

#5: J'on J'onzz unmasked (Twilight of the Gods)

Number five, in with a bullet, isn't a comic at all. In fact, it doesn't even really exist outside the imagination of Alan Moore and those who've read the synopsis for this great unmade masterpiece. Way back when you were all little boys and girls Moore pitched an epic project to DC, Twilight of the Gods. He imagined the DC universe a decade or so hence, when the superheroes had effectively taken over the world and ruled it from great houses of power. Superman, Captain Marvel, the Teen Titans and even the remaining villains all shared an uneasy truce, stagnating in their feudal kingdoms. John Constantine weaves his mysterious way through the story, watching and plotting, always keeping one step ahead of everyone else, always knowing more than he's telling. The Lanterns have been banished, along with all other aliens, and the Question investigates the strange case of a midget tied to a chair, gagged, and murdered by a woman who vanished into thin air. Plots are formed, alliances are made, and the other houses rise up against the House of Steel and the House of Thunder (Superman and Captains Marvel's roosts of power). Practically everyone dies or flees, leaving these two titans back-to-back, resolute in the face of the challenge though their respective families lie dead around them. And then it happens. Captain Marvel slowly changes, and then suddenly it's someone else. It's one of those moments when you slap your forehead and say 'Of course!'. Captain Marvel isn't Captain Marvel at all. It's J'on J'onzz, here as the vanguard of an alien invasion that succeeds in killing Superman. Captain Marvel has been dead from page one, his child's body seduced by a disguised J'onzz and murdered. You can't say Shazaam when you've got a gag in your mouth.

The rest of the story plays out in equally unexpected ways (or would have done, if it had ever got off the drawing board). It ends with earth free from the rule of the superhumans and makes a perfect bookend to the DC universe. It might have been better than Watchmen. I first read of this project about a year ago, and read the original rambling plotline that Moore laid down. It's like discovering that Beethoven jotted down the outline of a tenth symphony, but never bought the ideas to fruition. Even in this rudimentary form the energy of the ideas crackles from the page like a live wire, and the unmasking of the Martian Manhunter comes to life before your eyes. It's not a comic, but it should have been.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/robinpick4.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#4: Gwen Stacy Bites The Dust (Ultimate Spider-Man #62)

I'm far too young and pretty to remember the original Gwen dying, so here's the modern equivalent. Brian Michael Bendis is writing roughly 85% of Marvel's output these days, but the jewel in his mainstream crown is Ultimate Spiderman. I've never really been a big fan of Spiderman comics, but these babies I eat up like ice cream. Wit, action, scares and most importantly, characters so likable and cool you wish they'd been your friends in high school (except Flash; him you want to shove down a forty foot canvas tube lined with fish-hooks). Gwen Stacy was the perfect example of this. In her first appearance she came on like a teenage philosopher, then shoved a knife in someone's face. I was in love. Her father died, her mother was some selfish cow who hated her, but she found a surrogate family with Aunt May and Peter. Gwen became fiercely loyal to her adopted family, discovered Peter's secret, and was all set to play a role in the very heart of the book. And then Bendis killed her. Just like that. Carnage found her, killed her, and left her on the Parker's lawn. I was absolutely gutted, and spent the time before the next issue hoping against hope that somehow Peter would save her, and everything would be alright. It would have totally devalued the cliffhanger and made me think less of Bendis as a writer, but I wanted Gwen back. It's very rare I enjoy a comic enough to actually become fond of the characters in it, but it happened with Ultimate Spiderman. Brian Michael Bendis is still one of my favorite writers, and I will gladly lavish praise upon his talent until the cows come home, but if I ever meet him we're going to have a few words about Gwen.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/robinpick3.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#3: Xorneto Revealed (New X-Men #146)

The perfect example of misdirection and build-up. Over the course of three years Morrison showed us a new character, made us like him, and started dropping hints that perhaps he had a little secret. Of course, at the time they didn't seem like hints, but in a mystery of this nature if you realize you're looking at clues you'll guess what happens before the writer can pull off his big reveal. Grant Morrison is no fool: he kept you in the dark until he could wave his hand and show you that you'd been watching an illusion all along. The only time I've ever been so wrong-footed before was at the end of The Usual Suspects. You think you're maybe trailing a few yards behind the writer’s imagination, and then suddenly you realize you've been ten miles behind and never even known it. The revelation of Magneto's face under Xorn's helmet was followed by the prefect swansong of this great character, and I was happier with the state of the X-Men than I had been in a long time.

And then Marvel retconned the whole thing. I love comics with a passion that occasionally scares my girlfriend and my bank, but sometimes they suck so much it hurts.

#2: The Heart-Breaking Death of Johnny Alpha (Strontium Dog: The Final Solution)

When you were a kid, did you have a girlfriend who broke your heart? A boyfriend who promised to be true, and then ended up making out with your best friend? Did your dog get run over by the ice cream van? Yes? Well screw you, pal. I lost my childhood hero and nothing's been the same since. 2000AD has been going for decades, featuring more characters than I care to name, but my absolute favorite was Johnny Alpha. A tough, gun-slinging mutant from a future that herded his kind into camps and ghettos, employing them for only one job: bounty hunter, lowest of the low. Together with his partner, displaced Viking Wulf Sternhammer (whose own brutal death only just missed making this top ten), they hunted down the scum of the universe and bought them to justice. He was like Clint Eastwood with cool glowing eyes and a neat line in time-grenades. I loved him. He was my hero.

Then, years later, I found myself reading what would be his final story. The government had proposed a final solution to the mutant problem, and were forcing them through a gateway into a dimension where they were preyed upon by a terrifying beast, out of sight and mind of the human populace. Alpha is forced through, and discovers that the only way to open the portal and set his kind free is to sacrifice himself to the beast. The growing unease I'd been feeling throughout the story starting to build to an hysterical climax, as I realized that Johnny, once he knew the right thing to do, had no option but to do it. I kept hoping he'd find another way and get out alive, but no. He died, and with him went the last of my childhood innocence. There was a wave of shock that rippled through the readership of 2000AD when it happened. This was one of the most popular characters ever in British comics, and now he was dead. What was going on? Was he coming back? To their credit, the editors and writers never resurrected him, though the temptation was apparently difficult to resist. They occasionally print new stories featuring Johnny Alpha from the time before the final solution storyline, but whenever I read them I can't help but remember what's waiting for him down the line, and a shiver runs down my back.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/robinpick1.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#1: "I Did It Thirty-Five Minutes Ago" (Watchmen)

This may well show up on everyone else’s list for the simple reason that it pretty much subverts the entire superhero genre and leaves you gasping with awe at what's happening before your eyes. Superheroes save the day: that's what they do, and that's what they've always done. In the nick of time, they will foil the plot of the evil mastermind, avert the destruction of the Earth by alien invasion, and save the plucky pet dog of the blind orphan match girl. Except here. Here, they arrive too late and woefully unprepared for the task in hand, and then to top it all they discover that if they had beaten their foe the world would have been doomed. The villain isn't some damn fool who explains the plot just so the good guys can race against time. He's a man who's thought everything out beforehand, and casually informs our heroes that they were way too late even before they started. Our heroes were fighting against a man bent on saving the world by destroying millions of lives, and find themselves unable to say with any certainty that he wasn't wrong. The one voice that refuses compromise is atomized before he can ruin the new peace, and all the remaining heroes can do is walk away and try to piece together their lives. We see millions die before our eyes, and we realize it's all too big to judge. How many times has a comic actually challenged you this much? Made you think and wonder about morality above and beyond the facile and obvious choices between good and evil that are the bread and butter of this particular art form? Exactly. It hits you like a punch in the face, and nothing else comes close.

Honorable mentions: X-Men Unlimited #4 by People Who Will Remain Nameless. Shocking, but not in a good way. Zenith Phase 4 by Grant Morrison and Steve Yeowell. Hellish Elder Gods find out they've been trapped in a crystalline miniature universe since the beginning of the story. Much annoyance presumably ensues.

Rebuttals:
Nick: … damn you. You give me no material to work on, your list is just straight ace, man. Though I would have considered the death of Captain Stacy a bit more shocking than Gwen’s death, mostly because even if you had been reading the solicits, that was a death that no one on the planet saw coming. At least not like that. Regardless, awesome list. You deserve to win this one. You won't, seeing as how you only had one X-reference and I doubt the average ComiX-Fan member has read half the books you've listed... but you'll win in spirit at least.
James: Great list Robin, your wit and writing style is always a pleasure to read and you've picked some excellent choices for your list. References to 2000AD, DK Returns & Ultimate Spider-Man will always get you bonus marks from me and kudos for the reference to Watchmen as well. You've definitely piqued my interest in actually experiencing some of these events first hand, so all in all a great list.
Jon: Well as my countryman I'd hope you would have some taste and this does seem to be true for much of your list. Shame you ruined it with two screamingly obvious picks in your top three sullying one truly moving and shocking moment
Raul: Robin, there is something just so very disturbing about one of your most shocking comic book moments, not being an actual comic book, even if it is an Alan Moore psychosexual fictional fiction. I'm a little confused about one point though... are you saying that Xorn was not Keyzer Soze? Anyway, despite you forcing me to recall that horrible Nightcrawler retcon which preceded that more recent horrible Nightcrawler retcon, I agree with you, the spiraling shape will make you go insane.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/customavatars/avatar14359_1.gif" align=left border=0 alt="James Groves">Next is James Groves, who is determined to list as many Spider-Man and Batman moments as he can:

It's safe to say that as comic books started to grow up in both their format and their style, storylines started evolving to follow suit. From the early tradition of family orientated and humor inspired comic books in the 1930's, to the mature and realistically themed comic books of today; we have seen a gradual influx of shocking storylines with a variety of notably shocking moments within them as a result. I have chosen the following moments for both their poignancy, as well as for the memorable nature of the scenes themselves.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/jamespick10.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#10: The Ugly Side of Humanity (Powers # 5)

The partially naked image of Deena Pilgrim, dangling lifelessly from a ceiling pipe via two dirty bandages wrapped around her wrists, is something that will be seared into my brain for many a year to come. You see, Deena Pilgrim was a rookie cop; immature, headstrong, confident, almost over-bearing at times, with a spunky, no-nonsense attitude that immediately related to me at an emotional and spiritual level. I loved her ability to stick up for herself, take the initiative through her actions and the way she fought against the perceived stereotype of being the “token female blonde” of the police force was inspiring. So when I opened the page and stared at the image before me; it was like a stake through the heart. My stomach had already been churning during the issue, as I tried to contemplate what the antagonist of the piece was going to do to Deena, now that she was captured, imprisoned and at the mercy of this villain and visions of rape, dismemberment and mutilation had crossed my mind. You see, Powers is Bendis’s Watchmen; a detective noir series set in the seedy underbelly of a corrupted city, where mature and realistic themes are a natural occurrence in an environment without superheroes; so my fears were entirely in keeping with what had gone on before. The way Bendis builds up tension and creates an intense atmosphere which draws you into the raw emotion of the heart-wrenching and sickening scene must be applauded. Reading Walker learning that she may be involved in a gang-bang, just before the scene, heightens the suspense even more and when the image hits you – the tears in Walkers eyes, the solitary figure of Deena hanging with her face obscured, her naked lower half, dirty and mistreated – your heart stops for a moment…and then it hits you - as you read on to find out its not Deena at all, but a similar looking young boy - dead - and the victim of acts of necrophilia. You pause…and breathe a sigh of relief. You see, combined with the raw quality of Oeming's pencils and the darkness surrounding her, we are shocked on two levels; firstly on the cruel and evil nature of today’s humanity and secondly, on the fact that the writer had tricked us all along.

#9: The Return of Colossus (Astonishing X-Men # 4)

When Joe Quesada came aboard at Marvel, one of the first rules he mentioned he would adhere to would be a “dead-is-dead” policy; a guideline to make sure we wouldn’t be seeing ret-cons, rebirths, reincarnations and clones of dead characters in the future. This was of course, unless the story was important enough to override this rule, or that the reason and formula behind such an event, exceeded the quality of the story in which they had died. For those of us who are still aching from laughter at that promise, including myself, the numerous Phoenix rebirths and ret-conned Magneto stories had seemed to say otherwise. However, in Astonishing X-Men #4 we saw the appearance of another character that had long since been dead and despite my chagrin at the many ways characters seem to be coming back nowadays, this generally shocked and surprised me. At first I thought it was going to be the Phoenix (Marvel had just issued fake drawings of Cyclops staring up at Jean) and I went into the issue ready to ride along with another rebirth of headache inducing proportions. But instead, I was greeted with the image of a hulking large silver figure with a Russian accent - talk about not seeing it coming!! The moment Kitty is looking up at Piotr is still an image I can recall in my mind and the actual scene itself is wonderfully played out by Whedon with some subtle and expressive dialogue and a build up to a cliff-hanger which didn’t seem to follow the Jean Grey story I had previously concocted in my head earlier. My jaw dropped when I saw the page and I was genuinely shocked at the fact they had seemingly brought Colossus back. The way he had died giving his life so that everyone one else could be saved from the legacy virus, was a very powerful and emotional story (the needs of the many, outweighing the needs of the few if you will) and the fact that they have brought him back, seemed to stretch the point of logic to unseen levels for me and the reason behind his return was vague to say the least. However, even though there might be more to this story than meets the eye (and more to Colossus at that) the scene with which he makes his comeback, was one of the more shocking moments I've read in an X-Men comic for a long, long time.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/jamespick8.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#8: The Paralysis of Barbara Gordon (Batman: The Killing Joke)

If there were ever a need to quantify the sickening nature of the Joker, then the shooting of Barbara Gordon (which led to her current physical condition) just to prove a point, would probably rank as the more prominent of his most despicable acts; above the shooting of Jim Gordon and the savage assault of Jason Todd. The casual nature with which the Joker knocks on the door and shoots Babs in the stomach - with his piercing pupil less eyes and mocking grin shining out amongst the darkness - was shocking for the ease with which he carried out the assault, as well as the ambivalent attitude he exerts about her condition. It was the first act of violence by the joker that passed the line from being non-personal to personal and showed that the Joker wasn’t a clown anymore, but a vindictive madman seeking justification for his crimes. The look of terror on Babs’ face and the slow-motion effect of her falling through the air in a hue of Pastel red and orange, only further heightened the impact of the crime and together with the Joker celebrating his accomplishment with a glass of liquor; we are greeted with a scene that for the time was a very shocking moment. The nature with which the Joker then took pictures of Babs’ naked and bloodied body, before presenting them in a psychedelic slide-show for her father to witness, presented a grim and mature look into the world of Batman and an insight into the harsh realities of mankind.

#7: Adamantium No More (X-Men #25)

When I was growing up and experiencing comic books for the first time, I came into contact with the X-Men and the character I immediately had the most affinity with was Wolverine. He was an anti-hero, the curmudgeon and the character that looked the most intimidating as a visual. The character of Logan dealt with taboo issues of smoking and seducing women and always had a wise-crack at hand in any given situation. He was compact, strong, aggressive, ferocious and most of all - he had an indestructible and unbreakable adamantium skeleton, with 3 claws on each hand. Now for a guy of eleven I was in dreamland. I immediately took to him and followed his every story, living through the highs and lows of being the outsider in the X-Men, something that I could relate to in the real world. I loved him for being able to just jump into a fight, not care about his well being and due to the fortune of having a healing factor and an adamantium skeleton; he would never be seriously hurt. He was like Superman in that he was seemingly invincible, but would take a lot of punishment that would lead to some great scenes of being burnt and disembodied. However, that all changed in issue #25 of the X-Men where something that had been alluded too and in everyone’s mind was seemingly inevitable at some point, happened; Magneto ripped out the adamantium from Logan’s body. Now the moment itself was a scene of Logan screaming in agony and pain, before resting on his knees and it was a striking scene for its anger, agony and pain. The metal was literally ripped from every pore in his body and it made for an alarmingly graphic scene. What made it all the more shocking though, was that for the first time as a young lad I saw Logan at his weakest, his greatest strength tore away from with ease and in an instant and he was left as a husk of what he once was. The adamantium was a core of who Wolverine is, without it, he didn’t quite seem as cool as I had previously thought, but it was after this shocking moment that we truly started to get into the mind of who and what Logan was. It led to a breakdown in his Human psyche and the animal part of him was brought to the surface, as we saw for the first time that Wolverine's claws were bone and not in fact adamantium. It was in my opinion the most breathtaking scene involving the little runt and only after this, were we able to see past the “kewlness” of Wolverine and into the complexity of the character itself.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/jamespick6.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#6: Matt Murdock is Daredevil (Daredevil #32)

Within the world of superheroes, the use of a mask to cover ones public identity from the media and from their enemies, has been utilized from as early as the 1930’s. First utilized by The Clock and then by the Phantom thereafter and utilized by Batman and other superheroes in comic books to this day; wearing a mask provides a way of intimidating your enemy, protecting your identity (therefore protecting your family) and allowing the character to become one with their alternative persona. However, lately there seems to be a trend (especially within Marvel) of characters dispersing with their masked identities and making it known who they are. This motivation is quite sound when we see characters like Iron Man and Captain America give up their identities, as they are much more in the public eye and were ambassadors of America. However, there are some characters that would strike me as being untouchable in the Marvel Universe regarding revealing their identities, the first being Spider-Man and the second being Daredevil. So I was shocked at the climax of this issue, when we are greeted to a front page news expose of “Matt Murdock is Daredevil”. It’s a simple moment, nothing gratuitous, or violent, but it’s the way in which something so personal was exposed to the people of Hells Kitchen at such a wide-scale level. It wasn’t just one villain learning of his identity, or a member of the public – it was the whole city and this made for an unexpectedly shocking moment, which has already had many ramifications for the people surrounding Daredevil, as well as Matt Murdock himself.

#5: The Rape of Sue Dibny (Identity Crisis #2)

The moment we see Sue Dibny raped against her will, with tears streaming down her eyes, waiting for the indignity to end, is one of the most glaringly vivid and graphic scenes I’ve ever come across in reading comic books. It left an unsavory taste in my mouth that I will always taste again, whenever I pick up an issue of Identity Crisis and will forever tarnish my opinion of Brad Meltzer. It was a vile and disturbing nod towards the offensive nature of comic book storylines at this present time and indicates the growing trend of soap opera plotlines being used to garner readers. The fact that sales exploded through the roof, during the controversy surrounding the issue, is testament to the fact that in today’s demographic, the audience has a growing affinity towards plotlines that are dirty and lewd; a sad state of affairs for our society, when characters are supposedly only considered stronger when they have lived through traumatic periods in their life. However, despite the shocking use of pregnancy to make readers more empathic towards said character, the way the actual scene was scripted was excellent and there is a great deal of pathos in the way Sue just grits her teeth and waits for it to be over. The feeling of being unable to fight and escape her attacker is put across to the reader in a depressing manner and the way in which we are led from a scene of happiness and a reference to “watching the stars” to a scene of misery, where Sue is staring at the star filled sky in front of her, really adds to unsettling nature of the moment at hand. Rape needs to be highlighted in society and the comic book format is as suitable as any other medium for it to be discussed, but for me, the way in which the rape was portrayed and utilized, shocked me more than the actual theme of rape itself.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/jamespick4.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#4: The Death of Jason Todd (Batman: Death in the Family)

Jason Todd’s death is shocking for both its short-term impact at the time of the event, as well as for its long-lasting consequences and ramifications further down the line and it is for these reasons that I decided to place it ahead of the death of Superman and Hal Jordan. The moment itself is when Batman is cradling Jason Todd – Robin II – in his arms, after he staggers to the scene to find Jason buried under a pile of rocks after being beaten severely by the Joker. It’s an incredibly sad moment, filled with pathos; both for the innocent and almost fetal nature of Robin’s facial expression and body posture, as well as for the distraught look of despair that Batman portrays. Jason was Bruce’s surrogate son and always found it hard to properly train him in the role of being Robin and Bruce’s fear that Jason would one day perish because of this, finally comes to bare at this moment. Bruce always loved Jason, maybe even more so than Dick Grayson and the way we see Batman in a light we have never seen before, really makes for a powerful scene. What makes this moment even more shocking though, can be seen on a number of levels. Firstly it was the death of a major character in the DC universe, something that at that period of time was quite rare to see. Secondly, it was the first time in a long time where we saw Batman fail to save someone who was in danger. Thirdly, it was the second traumatic event in a short span of time involving Batman, where a few months previous Barbara Gordon had been shot and paralyzed. Finally, it was the first time a public vote would decide whether a character would live or die and the shock came when readers decided he should die. Coupled with the furor surrounding the event and the negative mainstream press reaction (They believed it was Dick Grayson who had died) as well as the long lasting effect it had on Batman - most notably seen in the Knightfall series - it was one of the most shocking moments in comic book history.

#3: Gwen Stacy: The Revelation (Amazing Spider-Man #512)

At number three is this little nugget of sensationalism that caused me to recoil in disgust and horror - the revelation of Gwen Stacy giving up her virginity to Norman Osborn out of pity. The moment of shock isn’t actually in a specific scene itself, but at the moment it suddenly dawns on the reader what is being implied here regarding Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn. This shocking realization is an outrage to the character of Gwen Stacy and is highly offensive to Stan Lee’s interpretation of Gwen Stacy herself. It’s indecent in its idea, as it’s totally out of character with what Gwen Stacy would have done and it ignores and disregards previous continuity which makes the story illogical and the situation forced. The fact that mature and realistic themes are being utilized within a Spider-Man comic, doesn’t lend itself any favors as at its core, Spider-Man is inherent within themes of angst and humor, not soap opera storylines that do nothing to evolve the characters within them; in fact, it devolves them to a base human level. It’s shocking in the fact it seems to be trying to gain an affinity within a readership that can relate to these actions, as it resembles what they may have done in the past and that makes me very sad. It’s shocking as there’s no credibility to it, it’s unbelievable and it’s nonsensical. It’s a moment that sent chills up my spine and as far as shocking moments go, there aren’t many more shocking moments then this.

#2: Peter Parker is… a Clone (Spectacular Spider-Man #226)

The Clone Saga had its highs and its lows, but the storyline itself isn’t really what I’m focusing on; it’s the revelation after months and months of misdirection, distraction, lies, truths, innuendoes and supposition that Peter Parker…was a clone. He wasn’t the authentic, original and real interpretation of Spider-Man; Ben Reilly was. Now after the many issues of this huge and expansive crossover during the nineties, there was always the little voice in the back of my mind that was telling me that Peter Parker and Spider-Man were one and the same person. That despite the barrage of accusations, at the end of the day Peter was the real one. He had to be, didn’t he? I’d read Spider-Man all my life, he was the first comic book character I truly could relate to, a kindred spirit if you will, a character that was going through what I was going through. I had lived through the death of Gwen Stacy and Peter telling Mary Jane his secret identity amongst many other memorable episodes in his life and I came to the conclusion that this had to be Spider-Man. So when I came to the reveal, it hit me like a bullet; straight through the heart, incisive, direct, uncompromising and relentless. I’d liken it to discovering that your dad isn’t your real biological father. I was devoid of emotion, as if everything I had ever known had been wiped out. Then I was angry, dismayed and shocked – why had Marvel done this? Then I sat and just wallowed in the knowledge that it might change somewhere down the line and of course, it was. The story was ret-conned, Pete was the original Spider-Man again, Ben Reilly died and the Clone Saga was quickly and unremorsefully put to death. The scene itself was high in anger and backlash of course, as Peter went over the edge and started hitting out at anyone and everyone - including Mary Jane - so I guess there was symmetry in how I was feeling and how Peter was feeling in the story as well. So it was a scene that shocked me to the core and would probably be number one in my list if it weren’t for a certain Dark Knight and a guy called Bane.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/jamespick1.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#1: Broken…and Done (Batman: Knightfall)

As a reader of DC comics and Batman comics especially, the moment Bane broke Batman’s back would have to rate as the most shocking moment I’ve seen in a comic book. Batman is a well renowned character in comic book literature and the moment where we see Bane - slowly but surely - break Batman’s mental resolve, snuff out his indomitable spirit and break him physically in a methodical and rhythmical manner, piece by piece, before snapping his spine across his knee and raising him aloft to the citizens of Gotham City, is a moment I’ll never forget. As an iconic character it’s a moment you never envisage happening, despite the fact Batman hasn’t any supernatural powers and especially by a two-bit goon, but it finally occurred. For the first time Batman had been beaten, by forces that were within his control and by a character that was physically superior and mentally more prepared to take him down. He was beaten at his own game and perished under insurmountable odds, mental strain and physical exertion. The scene is more memorable for the fact that despite everything, Bruce still fought back, despite limited effect and is a testament that despite everything that went on – lack of sleep, the death of Jason hanging over him – he was still willing to fight against evil. The expression of Batman’s face as he tries to get his bearings, but is overwhelmed, is heart wrenching to say the least. Batman has been bruised, battered and poisoned, but in a one-on-one fight, he had never been broken and at the moment Bane defeated him, he was broken…and done; an image that will probably be never seen ever again.

Honourable Mention: Kyle Rayner finding his girlfriend stuffed in a refrigerator.

Rebuttals:
Nick: Sweet Jesus man, you started out so well. Then you toss in Colossus’ bogus resurrection, Wolverine’s temporary-from-the-beginning adamantium loss, a pair of retcons that did nothing aside from needlessly complicating Spider-Man’s back story, and three elements of Batman’s history that, while shocking when they happened, are now such well-recognized moments in Bat-History that they’re more a point of reference than a source of shock. It’s like including the death of Ben Parker or the explosion of Planet Krypton. Still, you’re just too damn nice in your own rebuttals, so I’ll just say that I disagree rather than move on to petty insults, which are of course saved for Raul and Jon.
Robin: Thank God. A list of books including some I've actually read. Hang on, most of these I read last week. Not a big reader of Batman or Spiderman's regular titles, though, so some of those passed me by. I don't know how Kutter's death didn't beat your own Powers pick; I know he was an complete and total tool, with no redeeming personal qualities whatsoever, but dammit, I still miss him.
Jon: Good job you're around to make me look widely read isn't it. I'd look like a comics rookie if it wasn't for your continual plugging of familiar, obvious and dare I say it, Wizardish picks. It's ironic that a Top Ten Shocking Moments list can be so...what's the opposite of shocking again?
Raul: I find that I have learned far too much about your bodily functions while reading your list, James. Your stomach is churning, you feel chills in your spine, and you have a perpetual sour taste in your mouth... It's a good thing then that you can still recall Kitty seeing Colossus, as it happened only a month ago, so at least you are not suffering from Alzheimer's as well. However, I must agree with you on one point. There was simply nothing more shocking than learning that a universally hated character was killed after a phone vote. I know I was certainly surprised, because, up until that moment, I did not believe that democracy worked.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/customavatars/avatar3822_1.gif" align=left border=0 alt="Jon Hancock">Next we have Jon Hancock, who is determined to get us all in trouble with his #2 pick:

Honorary mentions go to Watchmen, Xorn mk1 and all the other picks I took out because I knew someone else would choose them :)

#10: Time’s up (JSA #66)

Zero Hour was a big mucky mess. Sorry Raul but it was. Extant did stuff then it was actually Hawk (who cares) and then it was actually Parallax. It was like a conference of the blandest characters coupled with the most confusing storylines. The worst part of the arc for me (though one of the better written) was when Hourman, (Rex Tyler), died alongside Dr Mid-Nite and the Atom. Yeah, they’re Golden Age DC characters which the majority of you couldn’t give two hoots about, but to me they were amazing. Hourman was especially brilliant. Recently he came back to life due to the machinations of the third Hourman, a time traveling android named Tyler, and was placed in a stasis. Removed from their at the expense of his son (Rick)’s place in this world, the original Hourman had a few adventures and mended some bridges before he had to go back at die at the hands of Extant. However, Rick couldn’t see his dad die and so tried to go in his place. While the two kicked chunks out of each other Tyler came to another conclusion which made this my favorite arc of JSA ever.

#9: Worlds collide (Flash (1st series) #123)

DCU’s history is at times a convoluted pile of poop that makes bio writers weep into their pillows. One of the chief reasons for this was the multiple Earths that existed due to DC’s collecting of numerous other companies’ characters and not integrating them into DC’s main continuity. Thus it was decided that these universes could actually interact if there was a feasible (in comic science anyway) method of bringing the planets together. Plus it’d probably make quite a bit of cash. So it was that in Flash #123, Barry Allen met his mentor and comic book idol due to the vibrations being at a certain speed or some other pseudo science. Why was it shocking? Because DC were opening doors to the world of alternate realities, crossovers between titles and annual team ups. Lovely stuff

#8: Who’s yo daddy (JLA/Avengers #4)

So JLA/Avengers was either a fanboy’s dream or a bit of a damp squib compared to who you ask. Personally I thought the only thing it lacked was the long awaited showdown between the Great Lakes Avengers and the Justice League Antarctica. Anyway, all of that was made up by one of the most shocking and tantalizing images I’ve ever seen in comics. The cover to JLA/Avengers #4 was jaw-droppingly exciting. How did he manage to pick that up?! What put a chip in that?! Why’s he the last one standing. Safe to say that it showed just who Le Grand Fromage in the comic world was.

#7: Hanging around with nerds can seriously cramp your style (Punisher MAX #6)

When I was introduced to the magic that is Garth Ennis on Punisher I wondered why it had taken so many writers so long to realize just how to write this character. Guns and bangs and more guns. Maybe some knives, flamethrowers and the odd Polar Bear. Anyway, I didn’t realize his history of being something to do with angels and something to do with a Scooby Doo van and something to do with a guy named Micro. So I did what any committed nerd would do, I hunted down info and back issues on the net for free. Micro seemed like a fun enough character but he clearly didn’t fit in with the hardened psycho veteran that Ennis had made Frank. So when in his first adventure of the new Punisher MAX series Micro made a return I was mildly surprised. I was more surprised that Micro was a bad muther, shut your mouth. I was especially shocked at the conclusion. To introduce Micro back into the tales of the Punisher was a bold move, carried out excellently. To tie up that final loose end to Frank’s PG 13 way in such an enthralling and shocking manner was even tastier.

#6: Starting off with a bang (Exiles #2)

I’m sure you all remember my epic story of how I was first introduced to Exiles (and pretty much into comics as a regular read). Sat upon my toilet I was presented with issue 1 by my brother who was emphatic that I should read this quality title. I knew nothing about the X-Men and didn’t really like Quantum Leap (unlike Dean Learner 20 points to whoever gets that joke). So I read it, got hooked and was gripped by the tragedy surrounding each of them. Whether it was Nocturne facing exile from her father and family or Thunderbird trying to avoid a lifetime of servitude to Apocalypse. None struck me as more tragic though than that of Magnus, forced to lead a King Midas like lifestyle. The character had such potential and development in just two issues that he seemed to be destined to become a mainstay of the title. The end of issue 2 came as a real shock and made me sit up and take comics seriously as something that I could really attach myself to rather than look at the fun powers and big explosions.

#5: Gone in a Flash! (Crisis on Infinite Earths #8)

When DC needed to revive some of their titles and chose to cast new heroes in the roles that had previously been filled, the first of this new crop was Barry Allen. I was a bit too wee to really get into Barry but as I had an instant love for his successor, Wally West, I tried to find some stuff about Barry. Never has there been a greater hero. The man knew his craft, knew how to treat people and never forgot his motivations. He was always trying to make life better for other people. Barry ran the race of a true hero and his sacrifice in Crisis on Infinite Earths was shocking in a number of ways. It was a fantastically written scene that really encapsulated the highs of his character. It was the culmination of an eight-month mystery that started with him appearing to Batman. It was a shockingly bold step considering that the Crisis was designed to prune the dead wood from the DCU rather than remove its most popular characters. Possibly the most shocking aspect of the death though is its lasting ramifications. Barry has only enjoyed about 10 posthumous appearances, and is still dead to this day. In an era when dead really doesn’t mean dead, Barry Allen’s sacrifice in saving the whole of reality still stands out as a momentous occasion, untarnished by an unnecessary return.

#4: And tonight’s mystery assassin is… (Flash (2nd series) #181)

So this is one that you probably won’t like and definitely won’t make you vote for my list. Trust me on this though, it was shocking. Geoff Johns has always been fantastic at inventing and revitalizing villains. This skill has enabled him to construct a brand new Rogues Gallery for the Flash, a job which is equivalent to totally reinventing the X-Men to X-fans and having them love it. One of the new bunch was the mysterious assassin Plunder who, while not possessing any superhuman powers, could tag Wally from a distance. Plunder’s crowning glory came when he was sniping outside of the Keystone City Police Department as part of the Rogues master plan to destroy Flash’s life. Plunder spotted his prey straight away, the young and zealous Detective Morillo. Shooting him clean through the head, Plunder went down to inspect the body, picking up the ringing phone and removing his mask, Plunder’s real identity was such a shock as it seemed like a totally unnecessary fact and yet the revelation meant that there were so many more questions that needed to be answered.

#3: Sometimes super hearing isn’t that great (Identity Crisis #3)

No doubt there will be those amongst you who have labeled Brad Meltzer guilty of using shock tactics in Identity Crisis and there will be those amongst you who feel that can’t see past the death of Sue Dibny and the ensuing murder mystery to really appreciate the most shocking scene in the series so far. It’s not Sue being attacked by Dr Light or Deathstroke humiliating the League. It’s not Ralph breaking down at the funeral or Lois pooing herself over her mystery letter. This series has always been about something much bigger than a serial killer who knows secret identities. This series is all about the guilty little secrets that get hidden away and no one scene sums it up more than in the aftermath of Deathstroke’s battle as Green Arrow is talking to the Flash about how they treated Dr Light. Flash is outraged at the League’s decision all those years ago and says that he’ll tell Superman. Ollie cryptically says that certain people hear what they want to hear and at that moment Rags Morales chooses to show us a close of the Ear of Steel. Why is this shocking? Because the world’s biggest boy scout almost certainly knows that the villains, and Dr Light in particular, have received this treatment and despite his ridiculously clean cut image and impossibly high moral standards he’s ignored it and pretended it never happened. That’s shocking on so many levels.

#2: And You Thought the Controversy Surrounding Nixon Was Over… (Marvel Comics)

There’s not much I can say about this one. It kind of comes from my annoyance at how corporate Marvel have become and how so many of their past creative talent have said that they have been treated badly. All that never affected me though until the day when I was truly shocked and appalled by the actions of the company. X-Assault was, and still is, the greatest free online game I’ve ever played and for Marvel to veto its existence because it poses a threat to them financially is ludicrous. The free game was a work of love and commitment by NixonVision and for Marvel to threaten legal action because of it makes me feel more sad that sick. Oh and plenty angry. If this sets any kind of precedent then how long is it before the House of Ideas decides that fan fiction, fan sites, fan art and fan forums also pose a financial threat to them? I ask all of you to go to the NixonVision website, linked here, and read through what’s there and then write to Marvel and tell them how ridiculous the whole thing is. Fan power can work and let's not let this act of backstabbing and lunacy ruin what is a fantastic tool for introducing people to comics as well as a quality way to waste time at work.
http://nixonvision.com/onwardsoldiers.asp

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/jonpick1.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#1: But I still got up… (Battle Royale Book #7)

Which brings us to number one. Battle Royale is one of the most brutal and yet gripping films I’ve seen in my short and sheltered life. I’m sure there’s plenty out there that rival it or whatever but that’s neither here nor there. During the film one of the main protagonists, Mimura, is planning to plant a bomb in the headquarters of the Program, thus freeing all the students. He’s stopped by the psycho with a sub machine gun, Kiriyama and in the ensuing explosion/hail of bullets, Mimura and his friends die and Kiriyama is virtually dead on his feet. Recently Tokyopop have started to release the English translation of the manga adaptation of the film. It’s some cracking stuff and though it takes a while to get your head around reading right to left, the books are must reads. However, when I got book 7 I read it with a heavy heart, knowing that Mimura was destined to die along with Kiriyama being mortally wounded and so the series would soon be finishing. Then I checked the website and found that there were still six more volumes to go after book 7. Curioser, and curiouser. Reading through the book there was the fight between Mimura and Kiriyama. There was the colossal explosion with Kiriyama trapped nearby. There was Mimura struggling to survive and finally dying and…there was Kiriyama crawling out of the wreckage unharmed?! This one twist has meant that I can’t wait for each new volume to appear. The manga has to be different from the film now. Kiriyama is still tearing people to shreds with his Uzi and trademark class. Who’s going to stop him now? Who’s going to win? When’s the next book coming to England?!?!?!

Rebuttals:
Nick: Your #1 and #2 picks are actually quite interesting. I’ve heard good things about Battle Royale from some of my All-Things-Japanese-Nut friends, and its high time we get some more public outrage over what those cowards at Marvel did to Jim. Luckily for me, no one will get that far, as it’s so mired with the gigantic yawn that is the DCU that people will fall asleep before your list really picks up. Oh, you try to save it with an Exiles mention, except that somehow the death of Magnus ranked higher than Thunderbird’s pummeling of the Hulk, or his own far more meaningful death, or Nocturne’s suggested abortion, or Sunfire’s coming out, or any number of other much more shocking things that happened in this title right up until the current writer bored me away.
Robin: Well, having never been a big DC reader most of your choices go way over my head. Your X-Assault entry is angry enough to convince me that some witty put-down of the DC line might result in the sudden and catastrophic rearrangement of my internal organs, however. So I'll just leave it there.
James: It warms my heart to see so many references to DC storylines in your list and in doing so; I immediately love your list. It features some truly shocking moments in DC history and picking a more subtle moment in Identity Crisis, rather than a more obvious one, gets you a big pat on the back from me. Your anger at the current predicament of X-Assault is mirrored in my own disgust, so congratulations on a very thoughtful list.
Raul: Jon, I certainly would never say that Zero Hour was a 'big mucky mess'. It was a convoluted mess, absolutely, but I would never use the word 'mucky'. Oh god, there's that toilet story again... Yes, sadly, I remember, even after all the effort I've put into repressing it. After that, I can definitely think of quite a few more reasons not to vote for your list than simply Plunder, but I must admit that you are completely right about X-Assault. A giant corporation making an example of the little guy, forgetting that good people get hurt by their posturing... I only wish that were shocking.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/customavatars/avatar12769_1.gif" align=left border=0 alt="Raul Grau">Finally we have Raul Grau, who is just plain determined:

Out of all the various media forms, it is hardest for a comic book to be truly shocking. Smart writers dabble in foreshadowing, but most go too far, hitting us over the head with major events that are panels, pages, and sometimes even whole issues away. Of course, having solicitations released three months in advance does not help matters much, so the fact that any of these moments actually surprised me is... well, shocking.

Honorable Mention: Walking Dead for ending each recent issue with an unsettling cliffhanger. While this series is more concerned with the survivors than the decaying shufflers, nothing about it is more frightening than waiting a month between installments.

#10: Maximoff-on-Maximoff Crime (Last Avengers Story #2)

As is true of most dystopian alternate futures, the setting of this miniseries was dark, violent, and (obviously) dystopian. So it should come as no surprise that several members received gruesome deaths (after all, it cannot be the 'Last' Avengers story without some bodies strewn about), but one such execution stood apart from the rest. Quicksilver (the fleet-footed braggart) and Vision (the friendly ghost) took an approach to human-mutant relations (well, synthezoid-mutant relations) that involved pummeling each other. Scarlet Witch leapt in to calm the pair, and, in one half-page sploosh, Magneto suddenly had quite a few less descendants.

#9: Growing Pains (Moonshadow #2)

At the age of fifteen, death should be a stranger, and danger limited to an unseen concept. Unfortunately, for the boy named Moonshadow, life is much more interesting. His adventure had just begun, and wonder was still as much his companion as his mother, Sunflower, when horror decided to sneak in the airlock. The botanically named hippie directed their band of interstellar wanderers to the aid of a plague-ridden stranger. She willingly exposed herself to microbial harm, but a far darker fate awaited. In one moment, a flight of heroic fancy crashed screaming into reality, and the mangled cliché was proven true- in space, no good deed goes undevoured.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/raulpick8.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#8: A Massive Loss of Bone Density (X-Men #25)

It seemed like another 'final' battle between the X-brood and their ethically challenged arch nemesis, Magneto. This trip to an egotistically named asteroid was punctuated by yet another round of debate over which philosophy was least flawed, that of the peacenik Xavier or the warmongering Magneto. The expectation was for this ideological crossroads to be 'solved' with a meaningless round of fisticuffs, which would barely justify the inflated cover price, but then something amazing happened. Marvel actually allowed their cash cow to be altered in a dramatic, if disturbingly painful, fashion. While it only took a few years for Marvel to hit the reset button, returning us to the adamantium-laced status quo, at the time it was unexpected and novel, something more mainstream comics should aspire to be.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/raulpick7.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#7: No More Raking at the Gates (Sandman #23)

After five consecutive days of work, most people eagerly await the brief respite of the weekend. By the same token, someone who has spent several billion years without promotion or vacation, deserves some time away from the daily grind. And when that dead-end job is ruling over the ranks of Hell, any time away is sure to lead to a graphic novel-sized storyline. Lucifer willingly gave up his stewardship of his domain in what can only be described as a shocking moment of Biblical proportions.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/raulpick6.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#6: Chatting in Honored Glory (Unknown Solider #4)

Every good mystery story has a moment near the end where all of the disparate events that preceded it are neatly tied together, and a Garth Ennis mystery story centered on a faceless solider has to have that, as well as an impressive body count. For CIA agent William Clyde, those disparate events included witnessing the brutal deaths of both the innocent and the guilty, all the while being led to a painful revelation. Clyde is given a choice with no options, and he sees the non-face of his destiny, but he knows a better way, a way without war and the pain it brings. And when you can surprise a psychotic, heavily bandaged professional solider, you just know you made the right choice.

#5: Single White Yuppie (Demo #10)

Thomas Martin had achieved the American Dream. He was overpaid, isolated, and living a banal shadow of an existence, until a mysterious girl entered his world. She knew things about him that she should not, and gave him the most dangerous prize of all- hope. In the resolution to this twenty-two-page epic, the curtain is thrown open, and we learn precisely how, if not why, she worked her magic, and Tommy faces the ultimate in abrupt changes. The lesson here is to always look both ways before experiencing spiritual growth.

#4: Repression: Threat or Menace? (Seekers Into The Mystery #3)

Seekers became a title concerned with painfully peeling away the exteriors of its characters, revealing the mysteries inside of us all. As a boy, Lucas Hart could fly, but as a man, he was landlocked by drugs and depression. Inside of him, a literal little man with knives chopped away, until there was nothing left but to face the truth. Lucas discovered that he was the real victim, and it was only then that he was free to fly again. The past is sometimes weighty thing, and sometimes the only hero is the person who can accept that.

#3: Sins of the Children (Starman #29)

Jack Knight did not desire to be a hero, and he certainly was not looking for an archenemy. However, fate brought him into the hands of the Mist, and she did to him what most villains would not dare to do to their heroic counterparts. I might be overstating things, but I cannot remember a time when Doctor Doom raped Mister Fantastic. Though that particular shock was seventeen months earlier, this issue brought a new dimension to their tale, and led Jack to a new emotional low. It is always sad to see a hero cry.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/raulpick2.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#2: So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish (Legion of Super-Heroes #38)

The first thirty-seven issues of this title were filled with near-constant struggle. Not just the familiar struggle of the forces of good against their darker counterparts, but also heroes struggling with the ideologies of other heroes, and heroes struggling with themselves to remain (and, occasionally, to remember how to be) heroes. In the end, good won the day, driving evil back into the blackness of space from whence it came. And then, in the following installment, the Earth blew up... that sort of put a damper on the whole victory party.

The Giffen Era ended with this self-contained tale, detailing the final weeks of a planet we are all fairly familiar with. The deepest depths of gut-wrenching pain are juxtaposed with the nobility of the human spirit, and the shock is not in the results, but in the realization that they could have been avoided. The words 'if only' are given new meaning here, as the member of the Endless whom you would least like to meet draws the final curtain on two billion lives... and I'm sure several dolphins.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/cx10-15/raulpick1.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#1: A Translation of Mourning (New Mutants #60)

Though the event was called Fall of the Mutants, the genetically-challenged scions of Xavier were notoriously difficult to keep down. The X-Men were just about to stage their mass resurrection, and X-Factor had even seen the Angel return from the dead, with a new, arched attitude. So it was the New Mutants who alone faced the dire repercussions that a Marvel crossover can bring.

Douglas Ramsey was always treated as the weakest link in the New Mutant chain, coddled by his compatriots and protected from proving himself as a hero. On an island inhabited by animal-human hybrids and a mad geneticist (quite mad, in fact, as he choose to dress in animal skins with no pants), the Cypher of the team finally got that chance to shine. When the target of his unrequited affection was targeted for death, he leapt into action, and found recrimination and pain in the process. He was no less ignored than he had been in the past, but he was a hero, and no one could ever take that away.

Rebuttals:
Nick: Doug Ramsey. Doug Fuggin’ Ramsey. Wow. You’ve obviously wasted a great deal of emotional energy upon one of the most useless characters in the mighty history of the X, and for that I feel for you, I truly do. My feelings may include ridicule, disgust, and shame for having ever been associated with you, but hey, those are still feelings right? As for the rest of your list, not terrible, but not terribly shocking either. Pietro and Wanda’s random deaths are any more shocking than The Hulk’s and Wonder Man’s in the exact same book? Wolverine’s loss of adamantium is more shocking than Storm’s loss of her powers for all those years (months? I actually don’t know)? Most of your moments struck me as more sad, than shocking… though the Lucifer pick is a nice touch.
Robin: I really like the Lucifer entry and I'll take your word on the others in your list I haven't read (quite a few of them), but c'mon: Doug Ramsey. Everybody except you held a big party when that whining little pest died. Seriously, we had cake and everything. In fact we still celebrate "Doug Ramsey is Toast" day over here in England. It's actually bigger than Christmas now.
James: A list that features one of my own choices - Wolverine losing his adamantium - makes for a great line-up straight away, despite the fact I haven’t really come across many of the moments that are on offer here. So it's hard to really comment on some aspects of your choices, but from how you've described them, they sound like moments i should really check out. Great job!
Jon: Doug?! Seriously? The man who harps on continually about Starman which is chock full of shocking moments picks Cypher to top them all? Heavens to Betsy Raul. Cypher?! I mean I've seen more shocking things in my toilet bowl (which is sadly true). Heck I've seen more surprising deaths on CRASH, BANG, WALLOP: WHAT A VIDEO!! (more bonus points to whoever gets that joke) I love the rest of your...No I can't even say that. Thought I knew you better big man… I mean DOUG?!

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Well that’s it, the moments that shocked our writers. Were you shocked at what they left off their lists? Feel free to let us know, and don’t forget to vote for your favorite list!

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The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writers, and are not reflective of ComiX-Fan or its other staff in general.

[Alex Groff]

You know, it physically hurts me to vote for Nick, but its the wedding proposal that does it. I mean, I'm a sap: I love that kind of ****. There was a guy near here (meaning in Baltimore) that brought his girlfriend to a museum. (As a history teacher, I simply appreciate the fact that they went to a museum.) And as they were looking around at ancient African artifacts, there was a diamond ring labeled "From -- to -- a wedding proposal, February 14, 2002." Tell me that's not ******* romantic. And she said yes, so there you go.

[M-Angel]

My vote goes to james, the reason is very simple
contrary to the other lists I´ve read every book on that one, and I´ve always loved when DC characters really suffer, and no DC character has suffered so much, both mentally and psychically than batman.

[djshalope]

i think james had the best, tossing in a few wildcards that seem so obvious that some of the other guys must be punching themselves.

here's my list:

honorable mention to Amazing Spider-Man v2 #36, when the Twin Towers came down. We all knew it happened but that didn't take away any of the shock.

#10: The Return of Colossus (Astonishing X-Men # 4)
- well done return of a "dead" character

#9: May discovers Peter is Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man v2 #34)
- the last page. incredible cliffhanger to an incredible story arc.

#8: Adamantium No More (X-Men #25)
- memorable climax to a cheesy story. almost more shocking that he had bones underneath.

#7: The Paralysis of Barbara Gordon (Batman: The Killing Joke)
- a wild twist. one of the few keys moments when joker really defines why he's such a crazy f***.

#6: Death of Colossus (Uncanny X-Men #390)
- i had been out of comics for a couple years. the first issue i pick up is this. i didn't see it coming till the last few pages.

#5: Broken…and Done (Batman: Knightfall)
- we knew Magneto was gonna rip that metal out someday, but i never thought batman would get crushed.

#4: The Death of Jason Todd (Batman: Death in the Family)
- no brainer. so brutal.

#3: Gwen Stacy Bites The Dust (let's go with the classic in Amazing Spider-Man)
- i wasn't around for this either. but it's like the tragic moment in your family you always hear about. for spider-man books, this was the shot heard around the world.

#2: "I Did It Thirty-Five Minutes Ago" (Watchmen)
- so suspenseful. so memorable.

#1: Death of Jean Grey / Phoenix (Uncanny X-Men #137)
- another shot heard around the comics world, but not just for one title. this was the titular moment where drama became synonymous. people still talk about this moment like it was only months ago. (haha well yes i know it was only months ago too, but i mean the original)

[strangerx]

I just want to clear one thing up about Battle Royale. It was actually a novel written by Koushun Takami, whose name you'll see on the mangas. I'm not sure which came next, the movie or the manga, but I can tell you that the manga actually follows the storyline of the novel, albeit with many noticeable changes (between the novel, manga, and movie, Hirono Shimizu dies three different ways). Having bought the movie before I even knew there was a book or manga series, when I found out that Mimura died (and I think the book is the more emotional death) and over 200 pages were left in the book, that in it's self was a shock. Anyway, love Battle Royale in all it's forms and I just wanted to clear that up, because that's the kind of geek I am.

[Nick Costanzo]

Damnit, as I said before, I wanna talk smack about James, but he’s too damn nice. Even if all his choices come out of books written a month ago…

[Wheeze]

I love the Doug Ramsey entry, I thought he was a good character (sorry not everyone runs around saying "mon ami" and throwing playing cards) and his death was meaningful to me. Personally I thought all the lists were pretty crummy, just because for every Watchmen there was an Ultimate Spider-Man or Exiles (and I enjoy Exiles, but nothing in it has been anywhere near a top 10 in my opinion).

Interesting to see other people's thoughts though.

[Jon Hancock]

See but you could easily write a list of the top ten and everyone would agree and it'd be the most obvious and benile list ever (heck that's waht James did) Or you could try and educate and inform about other titles and other shocking moments that people might not think of or have read. That's what everyone else did. I do find it funny though that you rate Doug "annoying little ****" ramsey's death up there while discounting the entire series of Exiles which has untold quality in it.

James knows I love him really.

I'm just irked I only got one picture when everyone else got loads. Not even my hourman picture got put in :(

Oh and you should all be writing to Marvel by now and telling them how nasty they are.

[Toga]

I wanna learn more about Alan moores Twlight of the Gods story.

[GilSpiderig]

Man, I don't know who to vote for...So I'm making up my own...I don't know the number of the issues I'm speaking of but you guys will figure it out.

#10: The "Last Issue" of Spider-Man, where it's the conclusion of the gathering of Five...Seeing Spider-Man supporting the huge building over him and Mary Jane showing her utmost faith in him....It just got me right there.

#9: Death of Hawkeye...Nuff Said.

#8: Batman revealing his identity to Catwoman...The ultimate pragmatist showing love for a woman....didn't see that coming.

#7: Identity Crisis #5: The death of you know who's Dad.....I literally threw my copy of it across the room... :#

#6: The Riddler turning out to be the mastermind of the whole Hush arc...Who knew.

#5: Aunt May discovering Peter's secret...That he is a closet Jehovah witness...No wait....That he is Spider-Man.

#4: The public discovering that Matt Murdock is Daredevil...That and his collection of brail pornography...

#3: Dick Grayson being a villain in The Dark Knight Strikes again...Well I would be a villain if i was put in a practical G-String and fish net stockings.

#2: The recents issues of Thor in Disassembled...What was shown there just blew my mind.

#1: Quite possibly the saddest moments in my comic book history...The Death of Bein Reilley...You :# didn't include him in any of your lists....EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!...When he was brought in as the new Spider-Man, All i could think was who is this pretender...How dare he even attempt to be Peter Parker (I knew all along that Ben was the clone...It's called faith people...)...but slowly and surely he earned my respect and love of the character....Then he died in such a heroic way, even beaten close to death and the shock of seeing "his" true enemy return...He died saving people's lives...And there is no better death in my opinion in comic book history.

[Starman76]

As of this posting, Raul has ZERO votes. Unbelievable, because he had the first two "shocking" moments that popped into my head: Seasons of Mist (my all-time favorite comic-book story) and, my namesake, Starman Jack Knight. Female-on-male rape, a first in any comics I've read. Boy, do I miss James Robinson's Starman...

[Robert Drake]

Since i only read Marvel comics, my vote has to go to Nick for including Chuck Austen en the New X-men issue.

The hell that was Chuck Austen is even more shocking than Wolverine's adamantium loss.


Jon gets kudos for including Exiles, sadly enough he loses all of those by admitting he didn't like Quantum Leap(my favourite tvshow of alltime).

[Mitch Brown]

Robin, all the way.

"I did it thirty-five minutes ago" is one of the most chillingly leftfield moments in superhero comics history. It completely undermined and subverted everything that we thought superhero comics were. All the way through Watchmen, no matter how messed up things seemed I still thought we'd get a big crisis-averted-heroes-rejoice-happy-ending. Like Robin said, the close act of Watchmen hits like a punch straight in the face. I don't think there's been a more shocking or meaningful moment in superhero comics since.

What else have we got here...Cassidy's "fall" in Preacher, the Supersellout in DKR...and....what's this...?

:astound:

Siadwell's death in Zenith and best of all...the tragic demise of Johnny Alpha, Strontium Dog.

Robin, I know how you feel. Johnny's death completely broke my heart as a kid. In fact, now that I think properly that was my first real taste of comic book death. Sure, in the Marvel comics I was reading at the time people were "dying" but Johnny's was the first comic death that I accepted had any real sense of finality.

Awesome, awesome list. Good to see someone giving up some 2000AD props.

:cheers:

I just want to clear one thing up about Battle Royale. It was actually a novel written by Koushun Takami, whose name you'll see on the mangas. I'm not sure which came next, the movie or the manga, but I can tell you that the manga actually follows the storyline of the novel, albeit with many noticeable changes (between the novel, manga, and movie, Hirono Shimizu dies three different ways). Having bought the movie before I even knew there was a book or manga series, when I found out that Mimura died (and I think the book is the more emotional death) and over 200 pages were left in the book, that in it's self was a shock. Anyway, love Battle Royale in all it's forms and I just wanted to clear that up, because that's the kind of geek I am.

Um yeah..what he said. Novel then Manga then Film (though the last two could be turned around).

Jon if you're a fan of the movie and the manga, you really need to track down the original novel. At the risk of saying that tired old phrase "not as good as the book"...the truth is (in my opinion) neither the film or the manga are as good as the book, and I'm a big fan of Battle Royale in all of its forms.

But then, given the amount of differences between the three versions, its probably not fair to say one is "better" than the other. Its like comparing Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? to Bladerunner.

Hey...wait a minute.

Yeah, there may have been bloodier displays in comics before this, but I don't tend to read crap like that. All I know is that a staff member, who shall remain nameless, recommended this book. Oh and before I forget, Mitch Brown is a bastard.

:rofl:

[citizenx]

My moments (in no particular order) would go something like this:

Cassidy's reveal in Preacher
Miracleman's final battle with Kid Miracleman
Watchmen's "I did it 35 minutes ago" spiel
Lucifer creates his own universe
Karen Page sells Daredevil's identity for drugs
Daredevil dropping Bullseye in #181
as Nick said, Freedom, V for Vendetta
Wolverine kills Jean Grey in New X-Men (okay it was short lived but I was shocked for that panel)
Collosus lets his students die (Generation Next #4)
Abby Cable was sleeping with her uncle Arcane in Swamp Thing (eww).

[Wheeze]

I didn't discount all of Exiles for quality, I love Exiles. In my opinion has it ever had a single earth shattering event that would make it in my personal Top 10 list of all time earth shattering comic events? No, that's one of the things I like about it.

I think if people keep out or avoid their choices just to be different then it shouldn't be a personal Top 10 list. I dunno, in the end I enjoy these lists if anything just because, as I said, it's always interesting to see what other people enjoy (even if I disagree) but again, changing entries from what you want to something you think no one else will pick just to be different is silly.

Also I think everyone forgot the death of Thunderbird....poor guy....

[Havok-X2]

wow, is Chuck Austen's run really that bad? I've only read his first issue on UXM. If he's so bad why did they keep him for so long? Oh well, at least that run is almost over.

[X-Priest]

I think you've all missed the mark. The most shocking moment ever was Blue Devil #1 when:
The dude's mask wouldn't come off---HIS MASK WOULDN'T COME OFF AUUGGHH!

No, but really Blue Devil #1, I truly was shocked when a character said "Oh my God." I was like 6 years old and "OMG" was a pretty bad phrase in my house. That was my first comic (that, and Web of Spider-man #3), and I remember hiding it because I thought my parents would find out that I had it.

That, and, OH MY GOD, HIS MASK WOULDN'T COME OFF!! AUUUGGGHHH!

[Anand Khatri]

I voted Jon because he mentioned 'Battle Royale'. That was an amazing movie and the series is great too.

[Chris Day]

what about the revelation of the celestail plan, of how celestials reproduce, in Earth X #9
or when jolt died in thunderbolts #34

[e_servo]

I have to say i'm more than a little disappointed to see neither Bullseye killing Elektra (which at the time was HUGE) or Bullseye killing Karen Page, for that matter.

Others I would've liked to see are:

Speedy is revealed to be a heroin addict (Green Arrow/Green Lantern)
Harry Osborn OD's (Amazing Spider-man)
Dr. Doom disfigures Reed Richard's face (Fantastic Four)
Cassandra Nova reveals to the world that Prof. X is a mutant (New X-Men)
Dell Rusk revealed to be the Red Skull (Avengers)

Those all made my face look like this :O

Smileys are fun

:bullseye:

[Drew Shirley]

Dell Rusk revealed to be the Red Skull (Avengers)


Was that really THAT much of a shock? I guess it was just when I saw "Dell Rusk" I said to myself "Red Skull".

Anyway, I gotta throw a vote in for Jack Kirby being God in Fantastic Four. I'd convinced myself Waid had written himself into a very sticky religious corner with that arc, but he pulled it out big time.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

i never thought i'd say this...but i voted for Nick. ;) Seriously, all solid lists. But Nick gets the vote for two reasons. One, he took a crowbar to the travesties of Austen's run. And two, more importantly...he gave props to my beloved V for Vendetta, probably my all time favorite comic book.

Also, like Alex, I'm a romantic sap so the Penny Arcade proposal didn't hurt...especially considering the usual amount of gay jokes and creative death threats that strip has to provide. :D

[Kevin Sutton]

I voted for Nick. His choices cuaght me by surprise the most and were the most successful at describing all kinds of shocking moments to be found in comics --not just events that happened to characters.

I've read and/or heard of most of the events that have happened on these lists, and I feel that the things Nick selected were more surprising for me and meant more to me.

[Dazzler]

i thin kthe death of Cypher is one of the most shocking moments in comics to me...I love the character and always have. So i dont give a crap if anybody ridicules teh character or his death, to me the death of Cypher definitely deserves one of the top spots on my list.

and i agree...the death of Thunderbird is also a top tenner.

--Dazz :dazzler:

[raul grau]

what about the revelation of the celestail plan, of how celestials reproduce, in Earth X #9

Chris, as another Krueger X regular, you know that I had to consider it. However, everything in the series was leading up to that moment, and we had enough clues to put it all together. It was still surprising, but all that foreshadowing knocked it out of top 10 consideration for me.

As of this posting, Raul has ZERO votes. Unbelievable...

People, listen to this man. He knows precisely what he's talking about. Of course, some people might say that I am a bit biased by his praise for my list, and they would be right. :)

- Raul

[Lia Brown]

I can't decide between Nick and James, they both have the two best lists. However, I can be bribed ;)

[Robb Welch]

one of the most shocking comic moments that no one touched

"Whats you're answer to this??"
"My ward Speedy is a junky? ****, bitches!!"

Green Lantern/ Green Arrow gets no respect on this list.

hey heres another one.
"My ex girlfriend is a heroine junky and sold my name to my worst enemy!! ****, bitches!!"

Hey, heres another one from the same series
"The greatest love of my life has been stabed by her own sia and left for dead at my apartment door! ****, Bitches!!!"

Or heres ANOTHERONE from the same series:
"**** dude, the same bitch that sold my secret i.d. to one of my greatest enemies and ruined my life but for some reason I still took back has contracted aids!!! **** bitches!!!"

Wait wait wait
"My aids-infected girlfriend just got killed by the same man who killed my LAST girlfriend who was killed!! RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!! **** Bitches!!!"

Or hey
"I'm married! **** bitches!!!"

Daredevil gets no respect on this list.

[Suzene]

Raul got my vote for having the guts to put Doug Ramsey's death at #1.

Forget Xavier's lip-service about not making the same mistakes he did with the X-Men when he started training the New Mutants, about how *this* group of students wouldn't be tossed into life-or-death situations. Anyone with half a gnat's brain could foresee that teenage kids able to shoot geysers of lava out of the earth, blast through the air with the greatest of ease, shred people with their bare hands, could make people crap themselves in fear with just a thought, or who were just a drop or two of blood away from becoming the demon queen of Limbo were going to be getting into situations on a power scale completely different from a kid whose mutant power was pretty much only good for yelling "Don't shoot!" in any known language when it came down to a fight. Yet it seemed to Xavier that the best thing to do was to allow Doug Ramsey to take up the same training program as the rest of the New Mutants. Plotwise, we know Doug was allowed to stay so as to provide a normal kid as counterpoint to the band of emotionally scarred social maladjusts making up the rest of the New Mutants team, not to mention that Ramsey provided the benefit of ready-made angst once he realized how poorly he measured up against a team of physical combatants. Knowing that doesn't change the fact that putting Ramsey on the roster as an active New Mutant was an incredibly retarded idea. The fact that such stupidity was eventually overtaken by the simple reality that a physically human-norm player placed on a battlefield of superpowers *will* be turned into goo was as shocking a moment as I've seen in a decade or so of reading comics, especially since Marvel's brand of storytelling doesn't typically call its X-types on the stupid decisions they make. Cypher is in my top five favorites when it comes to Marvel's characters, but I put his death up there with Eric Larson blowing Dart's legs off as a moment that I couldn't believe actually happened just because it made too much damn sense, and then got to really enjoy for the exact same reason. Things like that just have more impact for me than something like a dead character coming back via the Fanservice Express.

Suzene

[Robert Drake]

I didn't discount all of Exiles for quality, I love Exiles. In my opinion has it ever had a single earth shattering event that would make it in my personal Top 10 list of all time earth shattering comic events?


Also I think everyone forgot the death of Thunderbird....poor guy....


It's not everyday you see someone answering his own question :yeah:


P.S. Yeah, i know he's talking about the OTHER Thunderbird and the Thunderbird from Exiles isn't technically dead, but it's the thought that counts ;)

[Mesran]

Heh, Xorn as Magneto and the return of Colossus shocking? Okaaaaay.

[Robin Lewis]

I wanna learn more about Alan moores Twlight of the Gods story.

A quick search on google should get you the full synopsis in Moore's own words. It's well worth a look.

Cheers for kind words, Mitch. Deaths in 2000AD have always seemed a lot more meaningful than those in the universes of the big two, possibly because 2000AD almost never reverses them. The one exception I can think of is that of Mean Machine, but they've gotten so much comedy gold out of him since I reckon it was worth it.

[X-Priest]

Oh yeah, the Thunderbolts being villians was a shock to me.

[doctorx]

Kudos to Nick for putting the Chuck Austen run there. Actually, these last few issues havent been too bad. Theyre good if you dont take them seriously. But I'm surprised that Eric allowed you to put it there (since he usually defends Chuck Austen). I thought he would have vetoed it.

[Big Guy]

my list would have to be since i dont read but 2 issiues of dc comics a month mine would have to be mostly marvel

10 : collous death (Uncanny X-Men #390)
: so much feeling i was in two minds when they brought him back

9: xorn is who now (New X-Men #146) : that was such a great cover up magnito right in front of us all that time

8:Adamantium no more (X-Men #25)
considering i read this book a few minutes ago for the first time it is still shocking (even though i knew it happens)

7: "I Did It Thirty-Five Minutes Ago" (Watchmen)
the only reason this is thisfar back is because they guy who did it adrian has the same name as me

6: (JLA/Avengers #2)
:just seeing these two titains of the comic idustry collide was a shock enough but when thor throw his hammer at superman that was just plain down awsome.

5: hush sweet jason (since one of not many the dc stories ive read i donno the comic)
my shock wasnt that it was the ridler but that a villian would go that far to bring jason into the storie(my fav dc storie btw)

4:May discovers Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man v2 #34)
I just seeing an old woman get that mad was worth it the only villain spiderman cant stand up to his aunt.seeing spiderman weep like a bug just about to be steped on is the greatness of Amazing Spider-Man #34


3: Gwen ! (amazing spiderman #121)
amazing shes stayed dead this long but she has ( dont bring her back now *prays*)
but this issue was a turning point for spidey and even marvel (of couse i was to young and pretty to be around but im still hearing of it today)

2: catwoman hush hush: (dont know last part of hush)
catwoman mutters sweet hushes in batmans ear was she a part of the sceame or not ( i know we've had this storie but theirs alot of shocking parts in this storie)

1: he's back (astonishing x men #4)
who here thought it was phoenix (rasies hand)an amazing cover up ,fake images on the net what eles do you need ohhh you want an awsome varient cover you got it.

pwew that took a while

[ojcart]

You can't beat the return of Colossus in Astonishing X-men #4.
It was so surprising and so well done. It was a great Moment and I have been reading comics for 30 years.

[X-Treme]

It's good to hear someone besides me say how badly Chuck Austen su-X. Goddamn

[Martin Dudek]

I voted for... nobody. I haven't read most of the stuff here, so I didn't think it was right for me to vote on something that's really all based on your own reaction to an event.

[thewrite1]

I keep getting logged out so I'll keep this short.
My first X-men comic was Excalibur #81 and I had no previous knowledge of these characters. The Excalibur crew came home from a night out and Collosus appeared in a jealous rage to beat Pete Wisdom half to death. This was the first time a comic really grabbed my attention and pulled at my emotions. Just the sight of Collosus's huge metal hand making contact with Wisdom's ribs is enough to unsettle me, and then the text tells me that Pete has no healing power and his body is literally crumbling beneath the impact. And then the confusion and confrontations that mark the end of the issue. I was crying with Piotr at the end.
Damn good stuff.
Not sure about Astonishing #4 though.

[supreme_telepath]

I think that the most shocking moment (for me at least) was when they revealed that Professor Xavier actually has a twin sister! Just when you thought you knew a character, something like this happens!
Also, another shocking moment (for me at least [again!]) is the elimination of Blink from the Exiles! That Timebroker even said that she couldn't fix her timeline because it doesn't exist. But that was way before the Timebroker got shady.

[Dylan McKay]

Personally, with the way AXM was hyped, only two possible choices were available, and it turned out to be one of the two, how is that a shock. Wonder Man joining the X-Men to get Beast to realize that he is the world's coolest cat would have been shocking, and kick SERIOUS ass.

So no one read Empire after my ComiX-Ten list, I'm surprised no one has the death of Delfi...

[seth_raditz]

my vote went to robin. all good lists in their own rights, tho' i just found myself nodding along when i was reading his!

[Vector]

I voted for Robin. I don't think he had the absolute best list, but his #1 moment was the perfect choice, IMO.

[Abbatoir]

I'm not that good at listing shocking moments so I'll list just one.

Batman: The Killing Joke.

The Joker shows remorse. At the end, Batman's caught him and he asks why he doesn't kick the hell out of him. Batman says he's taking him in by the book and he offers the Joker a chance to reform. The Joker solemnly declares that it's too late.

A striking and memorable scene.

[tormented_spawn]

I would like to say very good list people. With Jordan not adding his piece looks like someone else will win... :LOL: just kidding.

What I would add (warning spoilers ahead):

Power: Supergroup - The death of superheroine Zora in the fight with FG-3 member. Didn't you fine it sad when Walker can cradling her in his arms. The last issue of Supergroup was just as shocking, in a tv interview, he admit that they were engaged.

Sleeper: Probably a minor shocker to most, but shocker to me nonetheless - Death of Genocide, good buddy to Holden plus never seen it coming, what's worse is that he was setup by the same group he works for.

Gotham Central: outing of Montoya as a lesbian to whole of Gotham. All because Two-Face had a crush on her.

I found the sacrifice of Colossus to be more shocking than his ressurection. That's just me.

[James Groves]

Would just like to thank anyone and everyone who voted for my list :)

I thought Robin's list was the best for me, but that was prety much evident from my rebuttal. So many moments that rung true for me. Great stuff.

Would also like to thank Jordan for not being in this list, cuz the guys just too good man!! Gave us mortals a chance! ;)

[Sandoz]

For me the most shocking moment is the climax of Watchmen. Someone spoiled the ending for me before I even started reading it, but as the sheer magnitude of Adrian's plan revealed itself I couldn't help but be shocked. That's some power.

And I'm glad Cypher's death was mentioned, though I wouldn't put it in the #1 spot. Yes, Doug Ramsey was the most useless X-Team member ever. That was the point. But I liked him as a character and his final line still gets me. "I'm sorry, Rahne. I'll...never...do it...again."

[Dylan McKay]

For me the most shocking part of Watchmen was the psycho-analysis of Rorschach and the dead dog. But I seem to be in the minority...

[Anand Khatri]

For me the most shocking part of Watchmen was the psycho-analysis of Rorschach and the dead dog. But I seem to be in the minority...

Rorsach is the best. His flashbacks were just shocking.

[Doobie]

Guys, thanks for clueing me in on the Watchmen. I went out and got this title, and was glued to every page. Well, actually I thought it started slow, and there was way more text per page then we get in comics in this day and age. In the end, I wasn't disappointed, and I can see why this title showed up on a couple of lists here.

Thanks again.

[Alex Guillen]

I've got to say all the lists really impressed me but Nick's was the best for me.
i like how watchmen is still in most of our minds and how Robin mentione Twillight of the Gods by moore although it never got made.
the concept was just outstanding.

Comics that shock you to the very core are hard to find but there are so many moments that are made unique by each person it's hard to rate them in a list. Mine will always be Watchmen's finale.

[tormented_spawn]

I bought Watchmen years ago, and still read bit of it sometimes in the week. To people who haven't read it, go get this book! How can you missed out on a comic that changed so many people on how they viewed comics.

Rorsach is the best. His flashbacks were just shocking.

I'm on the same page as you. Before I started to open the book, I thought Watchmen would be just another superhero group on bland quest fighting villians like I have seen so many times. I just love every chapter, there's so much depth and plot twists.

[ultimateX]

ive been an avid x-men reading for the past 10 years, and here's my take on some of the shocking events that i've read...

1. colossus lives!
*after "sacrificing" his life for the cure of the legacy virus, he was resurrected to kick some more butt!

2. psylocke versus sabretooth round two
*that image of betsy in boomer's lap, gutted and drenched in blood... it still haunts me

3. sue dibny raped...
*i just started reading dc comics. and identity crisis # 2 was a shocker. i mean, is rape really allowed to be tackled in comics?!? but what the heck, i love it.

4. xorn+magneto= xorneto
*sounds like corn chips. i love this story line. i love grant morrison.

5. 16 million
*talk about genocide. morrison's first arc in x-men is a memorable one

6. logan ending jean's life... only to be killed by xorneto (planet X)
*way cooool!

7. magneto removing the adamantium laced in logan's bones
*this is way too brutal

peace!

[Jon Hancock]

Just wondering if anyone has contacted Marvel or considered protesting about the lack of X-Assault?

Together we're heavy people and we can move mountains

[tormented_spawn]

what on Earth is X-Assault?

Another shocking moments - Top 10:


The crew undercover a philapde (sp?) ring composed of veteran superheroes who lied about their heroic records & Girl-one killed by the Commissioner.


what no one is reading this?

[Jon Hancock]

Nice to know that people actually bother reading the lists before they vote

X-Assault is the greatest free game ever created. A game which was made as a labour of love to Marvel and their creations, which encouraged a heck of a lot of people to buy MORE comics and which has been shut down because Marvel are arses that think it steals from them. Despite the fact it's free.

Read my number 2 pick (along with the rest of mine and everyone else's list that you didn't read the first time) to find out more.

[FranklinRichard]

I didn't live through some of the shocking moments or read some of the other comics. For me a truly shocking moment was Xavier's reveal as Onslaught. After months of hints across all the x-canon about a great evil Xavier destroyed the mansion, left his students battered and broken. Tje Avengers arrive to a mansion in shambles and Xavier kidnaps Franklin Richards and reshapes reality. It was good until it was explained that Onslaught was Magneto and Xavier amalgamated.