PDA

View Full Version : DID I THINK THAT OUT LOUD #40: A CONVERSATION ON A CRISIS


Jim Lemoine
Jul 19, 2004, 07:38 pm
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/logos/dittol_logo.gif" align=left border=0 alt="Did I Think That Out Loud?!? logo">By Jim Lemoine, jimlemoine@comixfan.cjb.net

A Conversation on a Crisis

The following is a more-or-less-almost-completely-accurate transcript of a conversation I overheard in my local comic shop recently. Or maybe I made it up. Can't really remember.

David: Man, you have to read it. Barry and Hal were in it!

Mike: Big deal, a couple of dead has-beens are in it. Not enough to get me to pick up a book.

David: That is so not cool. Barry and Hal are... well... they're legends!

Mike: I don't try to get you to read every book that has the original Captain Mar-Vell in it.

Izzy: What are you guys talking about?

David: Identity Crisis. I just got done with the second issue. Have you read it yet?

Izzy: Nah, couldn't be less interested in all that spandex crap.

Mike: You are so missing out on Astonishing X-Men.

Izzy: Why, because Whedon's writing it? Look, just because he wrote some cult classic TV series, that doesn't automatically make him a good comic writer.

Mike: But it's Buffy!!!

Izzy: I don't like Buffy.

Mike: Blasphemy.

Izzy: I never saw what the big deal was.

David: Man, you guys have got to read Identity Crisis.

Izzy: Why should I?

David: Because it's an epic event! People are dying!

Mike: Big deal, people die all the time.

David: Important people.

Mike: Like who?

David: Well... so far, Sue Dibny's the big one.

Izzy: Who the hell is Sue Dibny? Is she that Power Girl chick?

David: No, she's... ummm... the Elongated Man's wife.

Izzy: Who the hell is the Elongated Man?

Mike: Wait a second... you mean to tell me that it's a big deal that a supporting character of the frickin' Elongated Man is dead??? That's supposed to be a big deal?

David: Well, yeah...

Mike: That's so... so...

Izzy: Could be interesting, I guess, if they did it from the personal view...

Mike: The word I was searching for was lame!!!

David: No, you just don't understand, see, she's been this major part of the J-L....

Mike: Dude, Elongated Man is like one of the worst characters ever created. He's like Reed Richards, only without the cool team leadership and super-brains. He just stretches. That's stupid.

Izzy: Man's got a point.

Mike: "Ooooh, look at me... I am the scary stretching man! Crime bows down before me!"

Izzy: Actually, I'd read that.

David: Look, just because his powers suck, doesn't mean his character sucks.

Mike: Yes it does.

David: No it doesn't. I mean, man, like having claws is such a great power...

Mike: Don't mess with Logan.

Izzy: No, please: mess with Logan.

Mike: I can't believe you're trying to compare Elongated Man to Wolverine.

David: I'm just saying that how good a story is, isn't dependent on the powers.

Izzy: You guys really need to read something other than the superheroes.

Mike: I still don't understand why Elongated Wife's death is such a big deal. I mean, she'll just be back.

David: No, she won't.

Mike: Isn't that a little naive, man? Of course she'll be back.

David: It's a crisis; she's not coming back.

Izzy: Super-types always come back.

David: Not at DC! Look at Barry Allen, or Hal Jordan...

Mike: You mean the guy who came back as the Spectre? And who's coming back as GL?

Izzy: And what about Superman? He came back from the dead.

Mike: Or Batman? He was paralyzed and came back, that's pretty close.

David: No, no... see, during one of these mega crisis events, the deaths stick....

Mike: Didn't Supergirl die in one of those?

David: Um... yes....

Mike: Peter David brought her back, didn't he?

Izzy: That man is a genius. Have you read his Spyboy?

Mike: No. But I loved his X-Factor.

Izzy: Who? He wrote some stupid X-Men book?

David: Haven't read Spyboy, but I loved his Aquaman.

Izzy: Aquaman sucks.

Mike: Besides, like I said, they'll just bring this Stretchy Wife back.

David: Supporting characters don't come back.

Mike: Aunt May came back.

Izzy: Say what?

Mike: Aunt May died during the whole clone thing. Then the writers brought her back years later. Said the woman who died was only an actress posing as Aunt May.

Izzy: That's gotta be the lamest thing I ever heard.

Mike: Yeah, well....

Izzy: And you're a big Spider-Man fan, right?

Mike: Yeah, well... uh... it's not all... y'know?

Izzy: Geez. Imagine if they killed Aunt May in the movies, and then in the sequel they brought her back using that stupid plot. Do you think anybody would see that movie?

Mike: Well, sure... it's Spider-Man.

David: He's probably right.

Izzy: This is really sad. Why don't you guys read some good stuff? Without the capes?

David: Okay, why don't you read Gotham Central? It's just about cops.

Izzy: Gotham Central as in Batman's Gotham? No thanks.

Mike: Or Runaways? That's not about superheroes....

Izzy: They've got powers. Close enough.

David: Man, you're so closed-minded.

Izzy: You're the closed-minded one.

Mike: You're both pretty sad.

David: Oh, just... just stay in your corner with your little X-books.

Mike: Don't mess with my X-Books, man....

David: Identity Crisis is a big deal. It's this huge murder mystery....

Mike: Starring Elongated Man.

David: ... not listening... with huge impact on the DC Universe!

Izzy: Yeah, just what DC needs: another universe-crossing maxi-series.

Mike: There was this murder mystery in New X-Men a while back....

David: Do not change the subject!

Mike: Look, I'm not reading it. Elongated Man? Some old Flash? Birdman? Not interested.

David: It's Hawkman.

Mike: Whatever. Look, you should be reading the big Avengers thing going down....

David: No way! The Avengers are just pale imitations of my Justice League!

Mike: Captain America's the better leader. Busiek said so.

Izzy: This is really sad.

David: Go read Bone or something.

Izzy: Yeah, I think I will.

<center><hr width=75%></center>

After a cross-country move that significantly delayed this installment of DITTOL (sorry), Jim Lemoine found a new comic shop. The selection isn't quite as good, but the bigger discount makes up for it.

<center><hr width=75%></center>

The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of ComiX-Fan or its other staff in general. For the record, said writer really enjoyed the first two issues of Identity Crisis, and believed that they were much better than the oddly coincidental Identity Disc.

ThePez
Jul 19, 2004, 08:09 pm
Wow, that was...interesting :D. It was nice to see view points of different people, but they should judge a book by its Spandex Costumes. Even though I enjoy Astonishing X-Men, I agree with people that just read it because of Joss (And I am a BTVSfreak).

Fav part:

David: No it doesn't. I mean, man, like having claws is such a great power...

Mike: Don't mess with Logan.

Izzy: No, please: mess with Logan.

HNutz
Jul 19, 2004, 08:09 pm
Heh.

Sad thing is, I think I know folks like that.

Good job, man!

dopplegager
Jul 19, 2004, 08:39 pm
Sounds like my shop when people start debating.

Float On

Jon Hancock
Jul 19, 2004, 09:33 pm
heh. long claws.

Identity Crisis should be read because it's good as literature (so far) not for the death or the impact.

Then again, all comics should be read because they're great stories. Not because mister stabby healey or miss windy rainy or miss thinky movey are in it.

FreakyFlyBry
Jul 19, 2004, 09:48 pm
Great stuff! :D That was one of the most enjoyable columns I've read here in a long time!

ursabearX
Jul 19, 2004, 09:48 pm
Now thats funny, reminds me of some people on this very site,...
OOPS, did I think out load again. :)

GilSpiderig
Jul 20, 2004, 01:01 am
Hilarious, it was too funny with the "Ooooh, look at me... I am the scary stretching man! Crime bows down before me."

Wil Kitchenmaster
Jul 20, 2004, 01:27 am
I think I would actually read a book with some stretchy guy running around like that. I really would.

Johnny_Tsui
Jul 20, 2004, 03:45 am
the sad part is all 3 sounds like what i debate about with myself... i think i need to get a life...:O

William Claypool
Jul 20, 2004, 04:04 am
Pfft. Mike's right, this was laaaame. I mean, come on, Identity Crisis is such a stupid idea. Oh what's going to happen? Batman reaches his forties, buys a big car, haves a few meaningless trysts, and hangs out with people half his age... oh wait a minute. Dave is such a tool, “Not dependent on powers.” Uh isn’t that DC’s motto: “We need to develop these characters... I know, let’s give him heat vision.” And Izzy, don’t get me started on Izzy, or as I like to call him... Tizzy (bwahahaha). What, is he supposed to be some sort of mediator? Doesn’t he know Mike is totally right on this one? Come on now, Avengers would so beat the JLA in a bare-knuckle beat down, it’s a scientific fact. There are three knowns in this universe: 1) My God is better than your God; 2) For ever action there’s an equal and opposite reaction; and 3) Superman stands no chance against the awesome might of Thor... Thor’s a god for God’s sake (no pun intended, but you have to admit, that’s a really good pun). I’m disappointed in you the most Jim. Why didn’t you step in and tell them to stop being such drama queens?

Oh wait, I get it. Heh, chickenmonkey.

Ann Nichols
Jul 20, 2004, 04:44 am
Originally posted by Jonberg
Then again, all comics should be read because they're great stories. Not because mister stabby healey or miss windy rainy or miss thinky movey are in it.

Well, I'd love to have all the stories Prof. X appears in be great stories, but I'm a character fan and if I don't care about at least one of the characters in a comic, I'm not going to be interested. (I'm not going to say that it can't be a great story if it doesn't manage to get me to care about at least one character because tastes differ).

strangerx
Jul 20, 2004, 05:04 am
This should almost start with "So a Marvel fan, a DC fan, and an Non-Superhero fan walk into a comic book store...".

But in all seriousness, Identity Crisis has been such an interesting and well written story that I can't even imagine why people would feel the need to debate over it. My only problem is having to wait for the next issue to come out.

Jon Hancock
Jul 20, 2004, 05:26 am
Originally posted by Ann Nichols


Well, I'd love to have all the stories Prof. X appears in be great stories, but I'm a character fan and if I don't care about at least one of the characters in a comic, I'm not going to be interested. (I'm not going to say that it can't be a great story if it doesn't manage to get me to care about at least one character because tastes differ).

So do you never try a new book? One with new characters and fantastic stories? I think you're limiting your reading if you aren't willing to try and get attatched to new characters or even established characters.

A good story either transcends the need to have a connection with the character (Identity Crisis #1) or it builds respect for the character within the story (as virtually any Authority arc does with Midnighter.)

Jordan T. Maxwell
Jul 20, 2004, 06:40 am
Originally posted by Jonberg
heh. long claws.

Identity Crisis should be read because it's good as literature (so far) not for the death or the impact.

Then again, all comics should be read because they're great stories. Not because mister stabby healey or miss windy rainy or miss thinky movey are in it.

we now know why Jonberg isn't in charge of naming superhero characters...

y'know...now I'M in the mood to go read some Bone. :)

James Groves
Jul 20, 2004, 07:41 am
Great column. Funniest i've read!!

David, Mike & Izzy sum up nearly everyone on this site.

But who would fit as who?

Theres the D.C fan. the Marvel fan, and the non-super-hero fan.

But what about the 4th person missing in the coversation :- the Alan Moore/Neil Gaiman fan:- Julian. Who sits in the corner contemplating what the word "the" meant to the whole meaning of life and that specific passage in Sandman.

They look at you reading your Spider-Man or your X-Men, laugh inwardly to themselves at your ignorance and and your lack of education, for they are enlightened and stroll pass you as if walking on the air itself.

They pass you by and comment, "hey hows that erm, cylots is he, no cyclops sorry, whats happening with him now?"

They then look at you as if you are but a child, not able to understand the true nature of comics.

Hes not a D.C fan, a marvel fan or a non-superhero fan. Hes on a far higher plane, altogether. They're not comics, they're religion, artefacts of worship, parchments with intriquite clues to the meaning of life and the beyond.

No they are not D.C fans, Marvel Fans, or Non-Superhero fans.

They are disciples of their faith. Their Gods. Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman.

They are "Gaimoores", the last and only, real, true, readers of good comics.

Gat0r-ManX
Jul 20, 2004, 11:08 am
Hahaha, interesting column.

My comic book store is too quiet. There're just like little kids debatting about their pokemons or yu-gi-oh :(

Radiate
Jul 20, 2004, 11:13 am
Great article again Jim.All those 'characters' were completely flawed in my mind.

You should read a comic based on the story,the great characterisation and concept etc. It's all about different factors in my mind.

I admit,i'm a little Marvel bias,but that's because i don't have enough money to really expand into other companies.There are plenty of non-Marvel/non-superhero titles i wanna try eg.Fables etc.

But th mainstream DC like Batman and Superman are just confusing.I mean what's the main title you know?

RADIATE!

KenB3
Jul 20, 2004, 01:53 pm
Yeah, I guess the point is that loyalty to a certain company or genre means you miss out on good stories and art from the guys you're excluding. The thing is, a lot of the biggest comic fans have those biases and do miss out on a lot. I used to be a pretty loyal Marvel fan, but there's too much good stuff out there to have that attitude. I mean, imagine buying some crap like "Weapon X" out of brand loyalty when Birds of Prey is sitting right over there.

Acolyte42
Jul 20, 2004, 02:30 pm
why do all comic arguments end up like this?i had one like this a while ago that started with "is Green Arrow a commie?" and ended up on what a horrible concept Runaways is.

Nathan J. Wilson
Jul 20, 2004, 02:50 pm
Made me laugh, nice one :)

Ryan Day
Jul 20, 2004, 02:59 pm
Originally posted by Ann Nichols
Well, I'd love to have all the stories Prof. X appears in be great stories, but I'm a character fan and if I don't care about at least one of the characters in a comic, I'm not going to be interested.

But if the character you care about is badly written, are you really reading about the character you care about?

dizfactor
Jul 20, 2004, 04:50 pm
Originally posted by James Groves
Great column. Funniest i've read!!

David, Mike &amp; Izzy sum up nearly everyone on this site.

But who would fit as who?

Theres the D.C fan. the Marvel fan, and the non-super-hero fan.

But what about the 4th person missing in the coversation :- the Alan Moore/Neil Gaiman fan:- Julian. Who sits in the corner contemplating what the word &quot;the&quot; meant to the whole meaning of life and that specific passage in Sandman.

that's Izzy.

NMBradbury
Jul 20, 2004, 05:01 pm
How about we combine Stretchy-Dude and Claws-Guy to create STRETCHY-CLAWS-MAN! His claws stretch all over the place.

Discussions at my comics store tend not to be like this. My comic book guy doesn't like me very much because of my random approach to actually buying the stuff I ask him to keep back, so I don't get involved, but the discussions are usually like 'Is Iron Man's butler gay in the Ultimates?' and 'Should the Punisher be the correct age and be a crimefightin' old dude?'

Niels van Eekelen
Jul 20, 2004, 05:56 pm
Good column.

Cause it made me feel all openminded in my comic-reading habits.
:D

(Even though I would have interjected into that conversation that although there may be some very solid writing in Identity Crisis, and a lot of great art, DC has killed it for me by over-hyping the death.)

Wolverine
Jul 20, 2004, 06:28 pm
Hah! The sad thing is that it seems so real

James Groves
Jul 20, 2004, 06:59 pm
Originally posted by dizfactor


that's Izzy.

Nah its Julian trust me.

Dylan McKay
Jul 20, 2004, 07:02 pm
What about me, the anti-hype guy. Even if I want to, I won't read a hyped comic. I just sorta hum and haw and stare at the thing and think, nah, I'd rather read Hellblazer. I actually pre-ordered Identity Crisis but cancelled it when cutting back my pull list in favour of Small Gods. Really looking forward to Small Gods, but still, I'm weird like that. I know I oughta be smarter than that, but, to quote the Trek, "I can' doit cap-tain, I don' 'ave the powrr"

Michael "Glaivester" Jose
Jul 20, 2004, 08:07 pm
Buying an X-title just because Joss Whedon of BtVS writes it is just plain stupid. I mean, it's like buying "The Amazing Spider-Man" just because the creator of Babylon 5, J. Michael Straczynski, wri...

Oh, wait. Nevermind. No, it's very intelligent.

Iceman X4
Jul 20, 2004, 09:12 pm
Interesting and funny column, it´s good to see the diferent opinions.

:iceman:X4

Scott Williams
Jul 20, 2004, 10:43 pm
Mike: Look, I'm not reading it. Elongated Man? Some old Flash? Birdman? Not interested.


Hey, I'd read a murder mystery starring Harvey Birdman!

Great column Jim - funny and insightful.

RAMWolff
Jul 20, 2004, 10:56 pm
Talking to yourself again Jim?? :D

Me, myself and I with their own names. Cool!! :D :D

Nice writing!

I like my spandex superheroes, thank you very much!! I love both the JLA, JSA and the X-Men, so there!! ;p Can't wait to get my order from N.I.C.E. subscriptions so I can read part one!!

It's weird. I always read all these reviews and 'spoilers' in other forums and it seems other folks are getting their comics faster than I do!! Over at Legion World.net they are already talking about Legion #35 and I just got notice that my current sub order is in the mail to me and it's got Legion #34, what's with that?? Any idea's folks? :?

Thanks!

Richard ;)

Mason Dixon
Jul 21, 2004, 12:22 am
Great article! I'm all three of those geeks rolled into one!

Gabriel-JC
Jul 21, 2004, 06:10 pm
Now a real challenge would be writing a comic that they would all want to read.
Something like Wolverine and X-Force follow some enemy through rip in space time continuum where they rip into place where JLA and Elongated man are having a picnic and help them follow the baddy. They find out he escaped to Boneswille and only person who can help them to get there is Sandman.
series had nine parts first three by Wedon next three by Morrison and last three by Gaiman

Roberto Polanco
Jul 22, 2004, 05:00 pm
if ish #2 of ID CRisis would've been any good, the column would've mean much more important

Jon Hancock
Jul 23, 2004, 10:13 am
you sitting on your own over there kuri? what didn't you like about it?

Calybos
Nov 19, 2004, 02:06 pm
"If you only read {type of comic}, you're limiting yourself."

Well, yes, but doesn't that apply to ALL categories of literature? I don't read westerns, for example, or Harlequin romances; I have no interest in auto-repair manuals or rock-climbing travelogues. Cyberpunk utterly failed to interest me, and clever interior-design catalogs leave me cold.

Is it really that tragic for people to have a preference and stick with it? There's no way you can read everything on the market.