Comixfan Forums - REEDING INTO THINGS #29: TRADING UP

Joel Phillips

Jun 17, 2004, 02:23 pm

<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/columns/ritlogo.jpg" align=left width=115 height=100 border=0 alt="Reeding Into Things">By Joel Phillips

Trading Up

I have thought about this at length, and I have a suggestion to make to comic book publishers: stop making single issue comics. Abandon the single issue format entirely, and start making your series direct to trade format.

There are numerous benefits to this plan. For starters, it suits the direction most story structures have been going in for years. Most major titles at the big publishers, and a number of independent titles, are structured to fit into a trade format. The end result is often stories which feel disjointed when their chapters are separated by a month or more. By publishing the entire story at once as the title’s primary format, this problem goes away entirely.

Another criticism of “made for trade” titles is that they are drawn out, with three or four issue stories being drawn out to six issues to fill a trade. This problem could also be reduced by making stories straight for the trade format. In trade format, if there are no singles, the length or number of individual chapters is irrelevant. If one wanted to tell one long story by forgoing chapter breaks entirely, like a graphic novel rather than a traditional trade, one could. Single issues have a set number of pages per issue, but trades can vary. The number of pages can, like with graphic novels, be dependent solely on the needs of the story being told. This will improve the flow of the stories immensely, because the format is being used to suit the story rather then the other way around.

Yet another positive for making the change is cost. Three to five dollars a month, for something half as thick as the average magazine, is a tough pill for most would-be readers to swallow. Ten to twenty dollars, twice a year, for something more like an actual BOOK, seems like a far greater value, even if the cost per page is exactly the same. What’s more, trades can be sold in places single issues can’t. The big criticism comic book creators have is that the format can only reach the audience that already buys it, since nobody else goes into the specialty stores that carry comics. By making trades the primary format, you can further exploit the bookstore market, thus making your product more accessible to a public that otherwise would never come across it.

One negative to this plan may have popped to mind while reading that last paragraph: new stories for a series would only come out about twice a year. The argument can be made that many readers will not wait that long between stories, or would forget to pick the next one up after all that time in between. Though I understand this argument, I don’t think it’s a factor. If the work is good, we’ll wait and we’ll remember. The die hard fans will read it whether it comes out once a year or once a day… it’s the other people you should worry about getting interested.

Those people would certainly prefer trades to single issues. Besides being easier to find and easier to afford, they’re easier to keep. Single issues take up a lot of space, and they’re incredibly fragile. You have to buy other things, like boards and bags and boxes, to keep them from breaking down. A trade is as durable as a paperback novel. When you’ve read it, you can put it on a bookshelf and it isn’t going to fall apart. And should you want to read it again, you can do so without risking doing it serious damage.

The only people who care about single issues over trades are collectors, but that market is dead. Most single issue comics today will not substantively appreciate in value in our lifetime. Many comics of the last decade have actually decreased in value. There is no serious collector’s market anymore, which means the only collectors which remain are the completists. And the completists will continue buying the stories in whatever format you sell them in.

Many of you are probably saying that although I have presented great evidence for why trades are good, I have presented little reason to abandon singles. There are three major reasons:

The first is quality. As I mentioned before, story quality suffers when stories written for one format are forced into another. Since the industry is already writing stories for the trade format, it makes little sense to continue forcing those stories into the singles format.

The second reason is money. Think how much improved the trade system could be if publishers weren’t producing singles anymore, if that money could be devoted to the trades instead.

The third reason is advertising. Advertising a series can be tough, particularly if you mean to attract people beyond the usual consumers. Advertising a single upcoming volume is remarkably easy. What’s more, since it’s in a format that is available in places the would-be readers might actually go, that advertising is far more effective. Right now the little advertising comic publishers do goes to advertising new series, but they never advertise trades. Why should they? By the time the trades come out the story is old news. So the people who didn’t read the comics, the people who might have read the story in trade, don’t know it’s available because nobody even tried to get their attention. If trades were the primary format rather than a reprint edition, then the advertising can center on the trades, and center on getting the attention of the people who might want to buy it.

As much as some purists might not like to hear it, the single issue comic book format is obsolete. It is a product that caters to a select market, and has virtually no means to branch out and attract new consumers. The time, money, and creative attention that is currently being funneled into producing single issues could go a lot farther if spent on producing comics directly to the trade format. After 70+ years of comics in the same format, the time has come for a change. It’s a change that I think can only help the companies and creators of comic books, and I think it’s a change many readers are more than ready for.

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Joel Phillips has been reading comics for about sixteen years. He’s been reading really good comics for about six months.

The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of ComiX-Fan or its other staff in general.

Kevin Sutton

Jun 17, 2004, 03:01 pm

Originally posted by Joel Phillips
There are numerous benefits to this plan. For starters, it suits the direction most story structures have been going in for years. Most major titles at the big publishers, and a number of independent titles, are structured to fit into a trade format. The end result is often stories which feel disjointed when their chapters are separated by a month or more. By publishing the entire story at once as the title’s primary format, this problem goes away entirely.

Having dropped Ultimate Spider Man just a little while ago, I'm at pains to point out any story I'm reading which is written in such a format. 'Most' is an exaggeration.

What’s more, trades can be sold in places single issues can’t. The big criticism comic book creators have is that the format can only reach the audience that already buys it, since nobody else goes into the specialty stores that carry comics. By making trades the primary format, you can further exploit the bookstore market, thus making your product more accessible to a public that otherwise would never come across it.

This is an effective arguement for having trades --but not a good arguement for getting rid of singles.

One negative to this plan may have popped to mind while reading that last paragraph: new stories for a series would only come out about twice a year. The argument can be made that many readers will not wait that long between stories, or would forget to pick the next one up after all that time in between. Though I understand this argument, I don’t think it’s a factor. If the work is good, we’ll wait and we’ll remember. The die hard fans will read it whether it comes out once a year or once a day… it’s the other people you should worry about getting interested.

The italicized portion is why no major publisher will ever go along with that. Substandard stories continually picked up by an audience hooked on franchises regardless of their quality is what keeps Marvel and DC at the top of the pack.

Single issues take up a lot of space, and they’re incredibly fragile. You have to buy other things, like boards and bags and boxes, to keep them from breaking down.

A lot of people however, don't care about the condition of comics already read.

A trade is as durable as a paperback novel. When you’ve read it, you can put it on a bookshelf and it isn’t going to fall apart. And should you want to read it again, you can do so without risking doing it serious damage.

Personally, I've never damaged a comic unless it was done in a way that would have ruined a trade as well. Trades aren't waterproof for example...

The only people who care about single issues over trades are collectors, but that market is dead.

The first point is categorically incorrect.

The second, you've provided no proof of. (Growth rates over the past two years in fact suggest you are wrong)

The second reason is money. Think how much improved the trade system could be if publishers weren’t producing singles anymore, if that money could be devoted to the trades instead.

The money gained from selling to a non refundable market vastly outweights the money saved by not publishing in such a format. (and exactly what money would be saved? Advertisements in Wizard? :? )

The third reason is advertising. Advertising a series can be tough, particularly if you mean to attract people beyond the usual consumers. Advertising a single upcoming volume is remarkably easy. What’s more, since it’s in a format that is available in places the would-be readers might actually go, that advertising is far more effective. Right now the little advertising comic publishers do goes to advertising new series, but they never advertise trades. Why should they? By the time the trades come out the story is old news. So the people who didn’t read the comics, the people who might have read the story in trade, don’t know it’s available because nobody even tried to get their attention. If trades were the primary format rather than a reprint edition, then the advertising can center on the trades, and center on getting the attention of the people who might want to buy it.

I've never actually seen advertising focus on a format, but if you want Marvel to advertise trades instead --they just start advertising later when the trade is released. Why does that require that they not put out a periodical?

You've made a good arguement for trades (indeed trades are probably the future) but have not made a good arguement for getting rid of singles.

James Groves

Jun 17, 2004, 03:04 pm

wow Kevin, dont sit on the fence will ya?:p

Its good the way it is. Having trades and singles works just fine for both markets. Getting rid of either will just alienate the other.

GilSpiderig

Jun 17, 2004, 03:37 pm

Well, the publishers will never throw you singles, because they make oodles of money from people who buy more than one issue of a single (myself included at times when the funds are there). Also, the price value of singles increases, instead of a tpb. Look at 1602...The value I think right now is from $15-20...but lets say #5 of that series, is still at the same price value. Also if you don't like the series, you can just stop buying it with singles. So Singles are going to be here for a loooooooooong time, probably as long as comics are going to be around.

Paul Shinn

Jun 17, 2004, 03:46 pm

Interesting column, Joel. This is an issue I have actually thought about before, in particular with reference to Marvel's Runaways book.

To all intents and purposes, the recent trade-digest volume collecting #1-6 was a great success, making this series available to a much wider audience than the singles, a fact that I believe was at least partly influential in ensuring that this series continues past #18.

My suggestion was that Marvel may be better off turning this into a straight-to-trade book, rather than putting out the monthly single issues and then collecting them. Yes, there would be an extended wait between trades, but it's sales would be a culmination of both the regular trade buyers, plus those who previously bought the single issues.

I do also agree with pokerman's point that there's always going to be someone that is alienated.

However, it is also worth mentioning that Brian K. Vaughan is one of the few writers who's arcs work as a collection of single issues, rather than one drawn out storyline.

Sorry if this has sounded like a party political broadcast on behalf of Brian K Vaughan, but I just like the way he writes single issues (plus I've just this minute finished reading Ex Machina #1, which I feel is a very satisfactory single issue, while also being part of something larger)

distortion

Jun 17, 2004, 03:57 pm

I agree 100%. I came to a cross road a while back and thought, "should i even buy single issues any more". I basically said yes because i simply could not trust publishers to perfectly reprint certain titles.

Merlin

Jun 17, 2004, 05:24 pm

I personally don't liek TPBs I don't get that many
I prefer to get a comic each month
I also don't want to wait 6 months between TPB's I'll just loose interest and not get it.

but I just don't think it would work
I don't know if Tom Brevoort will read this thread, but in his forum one poster suggested that Fantastic Four should come out only in TPB's and this is how Tom replied

Originally posted by Tom Brevoort

I don't think so, in that the amount of revenue generated by the trade paperbacks isn't enough to underwrite the cost of generating the material. That's why the monthlies are so important--the collections are a great source of revenue and a viable feeder marketplace for the direct market at the moment, but only so long as the monthies carry the weight of the costs.

DC's experimented with original hardcover graphic novels, but there you're getting 96 pages or so for thirty bucks, which is a much lousier per-page cost.

Tom B

So coming from an editor at marel comics clearly companies can't make semi-annual tradepaperback original graphic novels (whatever they should be called).

Mario J. Ramos

Jun 17, 2004, 05:47 pm

I agree with this column, i have been thinking the same thing. The singles are just not worth paying for.

LordofDreams

Jun 17, 2004, 05:53 pm

I am not a fan of trades by any means, but here is one point to consider-

If Marvel was to begin to put out all X-Men comics in trades, they would not have a hard time pumping out a new trade each month, all be it, there would not be as many titles a month as they would all be consolidated into one volume or trade. If a creator had a story idea, then they could write it and it would be published for month a, while someone else would be published in month b. It would be a lie to assume that we would lose the crappy stories, because people by things with the x on it, thus Marvel would put out one or more new trades a month. The same holds true with Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, JLA and manny more.

did that make anysense? Proably not, but the point is people buy things that are familiar and this would just kill every decent book that was not as known.

Ok, I am done now.

Wolverine

Jun 17, 2004, 06:21 pm

Interesting column. I am picking up Supreme power in trades and that works better for me. I did get issue 1 though. collecting is also cool!

nekretaal

Jun 17, 2004, 06:51 pm

Good ideas.

During an age when comics were at their peak, the pre-code EC comics contained THREE complete stories per issue. Good stories too: they were later filmed in HBO's Tales from the crypt. Today, you get 1/6th of a story in an issue.

The timing of this article is bad. Grant Morrison just showed the world that you can still set up a complete story, and a clifhanger for the next episode all within 22 pages. And he mostly got it to work (although, by the end, even his his run was continuity unfriendly to newbies). However, this format is mostly ignored today, and most comic stories don't "fit" in 22 page installments leading to awkwardness.

So, I think the idea of the column makes since.

For example, Marvel has the following X-books among others:

X-Men
Excalibur
New X-men / NYX / New Mutants
Uncanny X-men
Astonishing X-men
Mystique
Emma Frost

Also including the occasional character specific spin-off mini-series, and experiments like Sentinel and the Unlimited series.

Suppose that all of these titles retained their creators, but each only came out twice a year in magazine length 100+ page installments, printed on Magazine paper, and each representing two 6-issue arcs, and assume that they were all retitled "Uncanny X-men."

Everybody wins!

Readers could read full stories in a book, and creators could pace the story according to its natural size. Under the above scenerio, the Graphic novels would still allow for 12-14 new issues a year, and this would keep the monthly publishing scheldule, and Marvel could still operate a subcription business. Besides, Collectors and speculators and completists would be forced to pad Marvel's profits by buying X-books like "District X" now titled "Uncanny X-men."

What's wrong? Everything makes too much sense here.

EDIT: to note that DC could do the same thing with Batman and Superman and Marvel could do the same thing with Spiderman and the Marvel Superheroes / Avengers lines.

Nick Costanzo

Jun 17, 2004, 07:18 pm

I don't think, nor do I expect, that all titles should go to trades starting immediately. As many have stated, completists picking up single issues generate a lot of money, and to put a popular monthly title like X-Men into just TPBs may alienate them.

I would much prefer, however, if other, smaller titles were made for direct to TPB format. Not only would we likely get more story out of them, but they could be advertised better, and wouldn't have to worry about being cancelled within the first couple issues. I almost feel like Agent X or Wildcats may have fared better if they went straight to trades instead of sitting on the shelves as single issues.

Jas0n22193

Jun 17, 2004, 07:19 pm

I think its a major factor if trades are coming out ever so often a year my first thought would be it would hurt the industry. It would hurt the comic book store. People might only come in when the trade they like comes in which only be a few times a year. I think we'd have a chance of losing comic book stores (hahah thats a major guess but still lol). Why does marvel have comics coming out at times twice a month? people love that! they love getting more and more.

so now we've lost comic stores. How do you bring in new readers even faster than single issues? you can't it will take ALOT longer. you will have waite for the next trade to come in which can take a long time. It would be almost impossible to bring them in faster because there isnt that monthly issue which can be used to get more people reading. If you look at it like this.... Most people are not going to spend a great deal more on comics than they are... so might but most are limited and get what they can. One month with individual comics coming out each month... most people dont save their comic money they spend what they have for that month.... most people wont save their money for half a year just to get trade paperbacks in my opinion

nekretaal

Jun 17, 2004, 07:36 pm

If Marvel put all of its "X-Titles" into trades and called them all "Uncanny X-men," it could still keep a schedule of 12-18 new issues a year.

Problem solved.

Statistics like "How many readers of issue #1 of a new series or mini-series actually stick around until the end" would bolster the idea (if there is a lot of drop off after people read issue #1) or weaken the idea (if there is not a lot of drop off).

For me. I am a convert to trades. They are a superior reading experience. I prefer to read a whole dramatic arc in an issue. Trades are cheaper too. If "Emma Frost" can be viable as six-isse trade for $9.99, then I think that's about the price that the X-Titles, under my suggestion, should cost.

Anthony Lucynski

Jun 17, 2004, 07:39 pm

I'm of the mind that a market shift is needed. I dont want to abolish singles, rather I think the shift should be Trades being the primary, and the singles being the secondary market.

That way, you're pleasing your established fanbase that may not want to buy trades, and tapping into the mainstream market with the easier, prefered format (and it IS prefered, guys, the Japanese will tell you and back it up with financial figures, and the American Otaku will rally to the call) but not alienating the established fanbase.

This would also stop a lot of cancellations. If you market it as a tpb, instead of waiting for the monthlies to gain steam to warrant a TPB in the first place, you will know right away it's mainstream appeal. Publishing the monthlies in conjunction will actually be the big test: If it does well in both markets, keep it as is. If it is a great TPB seller, but fails miserably in the direct market, you can either A: cancel the monthly, going with the TPB instead or B: continue to publish the monthly anyway, having the TPB sales offset the cost of publishing monthly (similar, I would assume, to how Y: the Last man and Fables manage to stick around despite poor monthly showings: The TPB's are killer and make up for it)

Bold move? Sure. But the evolution needs to happen, and although not as bold as Joel's proposal (or rather as risky), I think it would be better to do it that way than just obliterate the monthlies.

Anthony L

Nick Costanzo

Jun 17, 2004, 07:46 pm

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
I'm of the mind that a market shift is needed. I dont want to abolish singles, rather I think the shift should be Trades being the primary, and the singles being the secondary market.

That way, you're pleasing your established fanbase that may not want to buy trades, and tapping into the mainstream market with the easier, prefered format (and it IS prefered, guys, the Japanese will tell you and back it up with financial figures, and the American Otaku will rally to the call) but not alienating the established fanbase.

This would also stop a lot of cancellations. If you market it as a tpb, instead of waiting for the monthlies to gain steam to warrant a TPB in the first place, you will know right away it's mainstream appeal. Publishing the monthlies in conjunction will actually be the big test: If it does well in both markets, keep it as is. If it is a great TPB seller, but fails miserably in the direct market, you can either A: cancel the monthly, going with the TPB instead or B: continue to publish the monthly anyway, having the TPB sales offset the cost of publishing monthly (similar, I would assume, to how Y: the Last man and Fables manage to stick around despite poor monthly showings: The TPB's are killer and make up for it)

Bold move? Sure. But the evolution needs to happen, and although not as bold as Joel's proposal (or rather as risky), I think it would be better to do it that way than just obliterate the monthlies.

Anthony L

Excellent... great idea. In particular, they should put titles like Mary Jane and Runaways out there in TPB form immediately, considering how similar they are to manga stories. Then... slowly bring the manga freaks over to our side :)

Dark_Phoenix

Jun 17, 2004, 07:49 pm

I wouldn't mind getting only TPB. I only collected 2/3 of xtreme in tpb instead of getting each issue. I have collected all the uncanny tpb too.

I do usually forget parts of stories that seem unimportant at the time of reading but become more so later on. I think I would have enjoyed reading New Xmen in tpb then waiting for each issue as the whole run was like one big ongoing plot.

Jas0n22193

Jun 17, 2004, 07:52 pm

If Marvel put all of its "X-Titles" into trades and called them all "Uncanny X-men," it could still keep a schedule of 12-18 new issues a year.

But how would it happen.... put each issue a month of each x-title into a trade could possibly work... but than marvels taking the risk by putting all them into one... it would seem very weird you;d than be getting stuff you dont want to. and thats not really the purpose of the trades your not getting a full story arc.... but actually for me personally that might work... i could get all my x-men in one trade which could be kewl... confusing though

Or release one title a month.... but you could release one title a month but you cant that be 6 or so issues a month in one trade.

so basically in my opinion its 6 months for a comic title you like or 1 month for a comic title you like... id take the 1 month anytime

Alex Groff

Jun 17, 2004, 08:52 pm

I guess I'm in the middle here. Most of the mainstream books I buy, I buy as trades: Supreme Power, Wildcats version 3.0, Daredevil, Sandman, Transmetropolitan, et&c. With consistent writers, artists and quality, it looks like a library.

However, there are a lot of books I wouldn't have discovered for $15, that I was willing to try for $3. I never would have read Bone, Jane's World, Chiaroscuro, Teenages from Mars, Optic Nerve, Jim Mahfood's Stupid Comics and Girl Scouts: Work Sucks, Tranmet. (I tried the $7 Filth of the City first), Freak, Enginhead, et&c. Independent books would get hit the hardest, because "trying it out" is not something you do for the cost of two movie tickets.

And there are certain books I mean to buy, but can't muster up the willpower to spend $15 on. I love Darick Robertson, but I have yet to buy the Wolverine trades, because at that price I would just as soon buy a book by William Gass or Douglas Coupland, a cd by Grandaddy or Four Tet. When I was in Hagerspatch on Monday, a mom came in with her son and told him, "Now you can spend up to $5, and that's it." And someone will say, pfft, $5, whatever-- but kids are the fan base we need to build, and if they're priced out of range then we lose them.

The thing that needs to change is that authors need to realize there is a way to tell stories geared towards individual issues and trades. Warren Ellis, Joe Casey, Brian Wood all know how to write stories that are both self-contained and part of a larger scope. Writers need to understand how to write stories that appeal to both markets. Decompression needs to go, of course, but there was poor writing before decompression and there will be after. I think there is a place for both markets, but that it relies on quality work by creators.

Dylan McKay

Jun 17, 2004, 08:57 pm

There are a couple of problems with trades.

1) Impulse shopping. It's easy drop 3 bucks on an impulse buy. Not so easy with 20 bucks.

2) Trades are not necissarily cheaper. Many of Marvel's trades are actually more expensive. Some of DC's are no savings at all.

3) That much harder to establish new creators. Lets face it, if I'm dropping 20+ on a comic, if it's not written by Simone, Vaughan or Ellis, I'll pass.

4) We've all bought comics that we fealt weren't worth the cost. Now imagine spending 6 times as much on said comic? Stings don't it?

5) The monthlies serve nicely as a way to build word of mouth. If everyone only buys trades, lesser known trades will recquire strong word of mouth, but if everyone is awaiting word of mouth before dropping 20, then a great book can be lost when it would have found an audience with monthlies.

I don't disagree with increasing the role of trades, but it's not smooth an easy and I question whether or not the comics industry is strong enough for major change to not crush it.

Allison Wright

Jun 17, 2004, 09:31 pm

Everybody makes really good points. I don't think I'd like waiting six months for a new issues, (think of how many crazy things people will talk about on the boards if they had to wait that long.:D ) But for things like minis, trades are perfect. Sometimes I'll get one issue of a mini, but then the next month I'll either forget it, or my shop won't have it. And unless the #1 is absolutely brilliant I don't go out of my way to find it. With a trade, bam! Marvel's got all my money at once. :)

Anthony Lucynski

Jun 17, 2004, 09:32 pm

Alex: Very easy solution to your problem that Tokoypop does: Samplers.

Think about it. You're not investing a whole lot, and you're getting a taste on what you would be spending that 12 or fifteen bucks on (but also think this way: if you made the TPB the primary product, the cost would go down as circulation, and orders, increased.....)

Anthony L

Victoronehalf

Jun 17, 2004, 10:01 pm

I would like to see anthology comics instead of trades. That way you get a lot of comics for your dollar (Shonen Jump is only $5 and is usually about 300 pages long), but you don't have to wait half a year for the next story.

The answer to the "What if I only want to read one of the titles?" is that you can still get single-comic trades. But if the quality of the comics is high enough, it shouldn't even be a problem.

Plus, when done right, anthologies are a lot of fun to read.

Alex Groff

Jun 17, 2004, 10:30 pm

Good point about samplers. The only downside to samplers: self-published books, although the first issue could act as a sampler. I hadn't thought about that, but samplers are a great idea. (A number of publishers are doing sampler-style books for Free Comic Book Day, now that I think about it.)

There is a place for $3 comics, in the impulse buy/poor children range, but they're not being exploited. Why aren't comics next to candy in the checkout aisle? Why aren't comics in the record stores? Why are comics in so few bookstores? (And only mainstream comics?)

Another fair issue is people who buy comics for the suspense: they show up every week waiting for the next installment. When done well, that's one of comics' most effective tools. There's just something damn fun about getting the new issue. (Which is admittedly not a good reason to keep a format, but that does match certain people's shopping patterns.) This is a poll-worthy question: how many titles would you drop if you only bought them in trade format once ever 6 months?

Certain books would make good trades. I imagine that Wildcats, Version 3.0 would still be around if it was published mainly in trades. I buy mainly trades. However, I think the issue may be more complex than just one or the other.

Bamfette

Jun 17, 2004, 11:15 pm

well said, Joel. i think Trades ar the future... don't think single issues should be eliminated entirely, just, like Anthony said, maybe shift into secondary status. kinda like singles for music. set the ranks and give people something to try out without getting the whole thing, if the publisher desires to go that route, but... i really think the industry needs to break away from the pamphlet as the primary way to do business. and the digest sized trades are especially good, because they are cheap, and portable.

as someone who's been getting into self publishing, another benifit for publishers i have found is costs. it is more expensive to get say, 3000 trades printed than 3000 of one issue. but it's a whole lot cheaper than (assuming the usual of 6 issues per trade, tho as mentioned this is not something that HAS to be, but for the purpose of example...) getting 18,000 printed... you reach the same number of readers, and the end payoff is much greater if you sell them all. and you can do smaller print runs without as much of a hit to your per-unit cost.... they also have a longer shelf life. so for indy stuff, while it may not be flying off the shelves the month it hits, it gives the book time for word of mouth to (hopefully) spread... me and C have talked about doing a digest sized trade for Heathen Sent. but the market isn't quite in place, yet.

but really, you jsut have to look at the European and Japanese markets to see that this is something that could really work. not saying copy them, but we can learn from them. also, change has to come gradually, but what we have in place clearly isn't working all that well...

Jas0n22193

Jun 17, 2004, 11:33 pm

but could a comic book store survive this? people are coming while there comics are coming every month... now people are coming every 6 months for their trades. what do you people think can comic book stores survivng with title coming out every 6 months?

Bamfette

Jun 18, 2004, 12:15 am

frankly, and i know this sucks horribly for comic shop owners, and i am sorry, but it is more important that the industry of publishing the books survives, not the comic shops. if these books do better in bookstores (which they probably would) and it ends up putting some comic shops out of business... well, that's jsut the way things work out. can't break an omlette without breaking some eggs. smart comic shop owners should be able to survive, by marketing themselves more like an alternative bookstore. or something. i dunno. but... really it's more important that the publishing and distribution side gets a boost. the general public has already displayed they aren't all that inclined to go to comic shops. but they WILL buy manga in bookstores. manga trades in the US bookstore market put American publications to shame.

but hey, bookstores survive and almost none of thier stock is released on a regular schedule, aside from the magazines (and occasionally, but becoming more common, comics) they carry. the general public isn't one that goes out and buys soemthing the day it's released. that's only what the diehard fans do. most people are browsers. they go somewhere they know carries what they are looking for, be it books, music, DVD's or whatever, and look till something catcces their fancy. doesn't matter if it came out yesterday or 6 months ago to most people. of course there will always be high 'buzz' items in any market... things people will buy because they heard good things about, or comes from a name they trust, or something. and DVD's are kinda a poor example, because they had the theatrical release to build that buzz beforehand. but... in general...

Ann Nichols

Jun 18, 2004, 12:30 am

When I came back to the X-Men last June, I bought some trades and hardcovers just to catch up. Now I buy singles. The thing I dislike about some trades is that they don't always show the issue # -- really annoying for a former librarian who likes to cite. Granted, this wouldn't be a problem if you only have a trade format (they might even include page #s, which would make citing easier).

I've already several years' experience with collecting mystery series. I collect enough that there's usually or two (or more) hardcovers a month. I enjoy meeting the characters again, although I find I've forgotten some things since the last book.

I like looking forward to Wednesdays and new issues. Sometimes I buy an issue of a comic I don't care about because of a guest-star or a reviewer whom I trust particularly commends that issue. I wouldn't want an entire TPB for one issue's worth of pages.

The Sept. solicitations do not suggest that Marvel is worrying about quality over quantity. I bought each issue of "the Draco", hoping the story would improve. I wouldn't have bought the TPB.

A.W. Pemberton

Jun 18, 2004, 01:10 am

Rather than abolish singles or make them secondary, i think we should just change their format. Warren Ellis has suggested a few different ways singles could be structured in his Bad Signal mail recently (im only remembering these vaguely so someone else might wannna correct me if they remember better). Warren asked the publishers for pricings on these as well:

- The Dose: 15 pages of comic and a few pages of prose (and minimal ads) for under US$2. Good for sampling things, and would work well in big stores like Walmart of whatever.

- The Superdose: 40 pages or more (again with some prose) for US$3.99 or so. Id rather read a bimonthly book in this format than the regular one.

- 48 page novellas: I believe Warren said the cost was prohibitive for publishers to do this, but it would be nice anyway. Kinda like half of a OGN.

Id prefer any of these formats to the current one for singles. These could work really well alongside trades.

Jonathan L. Switzer

Jun 18, 2004, 01:28 am

Personally, I've been thinking that with so many similar titles coming out every month, it wouldn't be hard for Marvel and/or DC to go along the lines Victoronehalf said above and smush several of the Spidey books, or several of the X-books, or Batbooks, or Superman books together and anthologize the titles. Sell 'em at $5.00 to $7.50 each, with at least four titles in every issue (like, say, Astonishing ..., Uncanny ..., and plain ol' X-Men, plus some X-Men Unlimited-style one-offs), and make up the money lost by consolidating the titles with more pages of ads. It would give the creators more flexibility with page counts (the magazine would always have so many pages, but each series serialized could vary its page count) and flexibility with schedules. Mini-series could go the way of the dodo; if you've got a little four-part story a creative team really, really wants to do, just stick it in as the fourth storyline. Creative team having some mental blocks? Bench 'em and swap someone with an oh-so-cool limited series idea in. That do well? Pare down the pages per story, or up the page count and get more ads in there to squeeze it in for a longer run.

Do I honestly think either company will do something like this? No, not really. Marvel's tried a few times (for instance, remember that Ultimate Marvel magazine they tried a few years ago, containing both Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate X-Men as well as articles and stuff?), but I think the reason it never sticks is because they're publishing both the big ol' magazine version and the individual titles. Give people just the thick 'zine, and then maybe it'll catch on. I know I'd buy a big ol' 200 page, monthly Uncanny X-Men that could sit on my bookshelf, eve if it did have one twenty-some page Chuck Austen story in it ... :D (Gratuitous swipe, I know, but I'm making a point here, kids.)

Kevin Sutton

Jun 18, 2004, 01:57 am

Originally posted by Jas0n22193
but could a comic book store survive this? people are coming while there comics are coming every month... now people are coming every 6 months for their trades. what do you people think can comic book stores survivng with title coming out every 6 months?

Sure. It's the same actual money isn't it? Besides, not everything is shipped at the same time. Each week will see fewer but larger items shipped. No big change really in the profits. In fact, this would probably help smaller titles because there would be more visible room on a shelf.

Additionally, trades have a longer shelf life than a periodical and are more likely to be bought long after its been published, because the completed story is all together for it.

You won't see any comic stores want this though, as a more trade orientated market would mean that bookstores would have an even larger advantage over the direct market because the periodicals are really the only thing they have that bookstores don't.

Victoronehalf

Jun 18, 2004, 02:41 am

Originally posted by Jonathan L. Switzer
Personally, I've been thinking that with so many similar titles coming out every month, it wouldn't be hard for Marvel and/or DC to go along the lines Victoronehalf said above and smush several of the Spidey books, or several of the X-books, or Batbooks, or Superman books together and anthologize the titles. Sell 'em at $5.00 to $7.50 each, with at least four titles in every issue (like, say, Astonishing ..., Uncanny ..., and plain ol' X-Men, plus some X-Men Unlimited-style one-offs), and make up the money lost by consolidating the titles with more pages of ads. It would give the creators more flexibility with page counts (the magazine would always have so many pages, but each series serialized could vary its page count) and flexibility with schedules. Mini-series could go the way of the dodo; if you've got a little four-part story a creative team really, really wants to do, just stick it in as the fourth storyline. Creative team having some mental blocks? Bench 'em and swap someone with an oh-so-cool limited series idea in. That do well? Pare down the pages per story, or up the page count and get more ads in there to squeeze it in for a longer run.

Do I honestly think either company will do something like this? No, not really. Marvel's tried a few times (for instance, remember that Ultimate Marvel magazine they tried a few years ago, containing both Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate X-Men as well as articles and stuff?), but I think the reason it never sticks is because they're publishing both the big ol' magazine version and the individual titles. Give people just the thick 'zine, and then maybe it'll catch on. I know I'd buy a big ol' 200 page, monthly Uncanny X-Men that could sit on my bookshelf, eve if it did have one twenty-some page Chuck Austen story in it ... :D (Gratuitous swipe, I know, but I'm making a point here, kids.)

Exactly! Thank you!:)

Pong

Jun 18, 2004, 02:50 am

isn'tthat how the manga magazine/book shonen jump is done? it's like 5 bucks for a HUGE (and i mean HUGE) monthly book-zine that has like, 7 or 8 (or more, i dunno) different titles in them. one month owuld have.. ui dunno, issue 1 of "yu-gi-oh" and issue 6 of "naruto" and a whole smack load of other titles, then the next month, it would be issue 2 of yu-gi-oh and issue 7 of naruto, and so forth. i would buy them , but i'm not a huge manga fan.

however, i think the only reason is the whole price issue. i'm a reader, not a collector, so i don't care much but how much comcis are "worth" but rather how good of a read it is. and often, tades are much cheaper then the singles.. i mean, just lok at teen titans. 15 bucks (canadian) for the trade!?!?! SIGN ME UP! but those hardcover trades are ridiculous.. like the firs volume of superman batman is 42 bucks or osemthing canadian. i man. wtf is up with that. i don't need a hardcover.

dopplegager

Jun 18, 2004, 03:11 am

I could not justify to myself to spend fifteen dollars on a single book. I would rather go to the comic shop and check it out before I buy it. I only like to get trades if it is the only way I can find it. I will lose interest before between tpb issues.

CrazyFool83

Jun 18, 2004, 04:41 am

While I have no problem with trades, and have probably 20 of them as proof, I prefer single issues. It's not even as much of a lack of patience thing as it is me having a problem with the format. Trade paperbacks are quite bulky and you lose a bit in the center of double-page spreads that you don't lose in the single issue since you can open it all the way.

Yes, the lack of patience aspect is also a factor. I do like my monthly fix, and while I prefer my ongoing series in single issues, I'd have no problem with mini series being sold in trade. Yes, the price is in issue, and I do like the idea of samplers. Another recomendation is to change the format of the trade. Another reason manga is successful is the smaller, cheaper format. $9.99 is a lot cheaper compared to $14.99 or higher.

And one more note on manga, I actually thought manga, or at least some of it, was published not as big collected editions, but as part of an anthology. Regardless, I think anthologies are a great idea. However, the only problem with that is, regardless, of price, some people might not want every book featured in issue.

In the end, there are a bunch of problems because people are different and want different things. IN the end, what we need is variety. For those that want the single issues, they should be made available in comic shops, though a push back into newstands, grocery stores, book stores is needed as well. As much as I love comic shops, I'm not sure the indsutry can survive if they remain as the largest dealer of comics. But I digress. Anthologies should be looked at for those that are going to buy several related books. A few suggestions would be the 4 Core X Titles (I'm including Excallibur), the 3 core Batman books, core Superman books, Spidey books, etc... ANd trades need to be available in big numbers to the book stores. I think that's my biggest problem with DC. They don't do a very good job in getting their titles in trade. Their best selling titles usually get traded pretty quick (JLA, Batman: Hush, Batman/Superman, are examples) and a lot of their highly acclaimed WIldstorm/Vertigo titles do as well. But that's it for quickness. Everything else, if it comes out in trade, might take a good year or 2.

In the end, the comics industry needs diversity.

Justice Daye

Jun 18, 2004, 05:12 am

Speacialty stores should be able to move to trades and survive. As long as all of the books from any one company aren't published at the same time, they'll be fine. Uncanny would out 2-3 times a year, but Avengers, Astonishing, Amazing, and Ultimates trades don't all have to come out at the same time. This will keep ans coming to the stores even when one o their books aren't being published that month.

bravelybravesirrobin

Jun 18, 2004, 05:53 am

Many people have suggested anthology books combing a lot of x's, spiders or supes into one monthly tpb style thing to allow for the advanatges of variable form whilst still getting out a lot of content.

frankly this still creates the issue of stories that feel forced if you had 1 astonishing story, 1 uncanny story and 1 x-men story how is that any different to someone buying all 3 a month OTHER than the fact that they might have to buy something they don't want (in my case Austen) to get what they do (Morrisson) like compilation albums you get some good tracks and some bad ones.... and thats why I don't buy compilation albums. Its also why i don't buy shonen jump, i'd rather pick up the DBZ trades that overspend for DBZ and Yu-Gi-oh and some lame boxing thing I will never read.

Trades are certainly the future and a lot of people read exclusively in trades, ALL the DC titles I get I get in trade form and i'm reading runaways this way too. I also re-read my tpb's more than my singles because they're more easily portable and generally better. + you have the advantages of preserving odler material for the casual reader or the new person eliminating "continuity" issues.... so long as you clearly label VOLUME 1, VOLUME 2 (I hate it when a publisher doesn't label volumes)

Yet I don't think we're in a position to get rid of singles because they do possess significant advnatges over trades.

they're easier to read

they're impulse buys allowing you to sample

and the reason i colelct all my Marvel titles in singles, SUSPENSE. conventional super-hero stories are like Soap Operas, you geta lttle bit of plot development and several character arc developments per issue ending in a cliff hanger. This makes me eager to get the next issue (this is also the reason y people enjoy the 2 issues a month, it comes sooner :p ) and since comics are a cult audience product I use this eagerness to increase my enjopyment of the product by going online and talkign about it.

Here Comes Tomorrow wouldn't have been as fun for me in trade form. The story is all there in one setting I don't get the moments onlien or sitting in ym head re-reading little bit tryign to fgiure out whats going on, second guessing the direction of the story adn the mysteries. The signles format is one of the better literary formast for creating suspense, enigma, tension and forcing a deeper undersanding because you only get a little bit of a story at a time.

Dylan McKay

Jun 18, 2004, 08:18 am

I like the anthology idea for a couple reasons. But I think going all X or all Spidey is bland. I say use it to introduce new books and new creators as well. I like getting better value but still getting a monthly fix. Plus, artists can keep their schedule by doing less pages.

Anthony Lucynski

Jun 18, 2004, 10:59 am

but could a comic book store survive this?

Yes, because those that are smart have already taken advantage of trades as a primary source of income. Also, the more succesful retailers dont concentrate just on comics, but involved CCG and other gaming into their shops, bringing the kids and teenagers in by the roomful.

But on a more less positive note, like Jill said, quite frankly the specialty shop isnt the point of the industry surviving. It would be nice if they stuck around, but we're talking about expanding the industry, and if the retailers cannot adapt and survive with a new market strategy, then they were doomed for failure before they opened shop.

Anthony L

wondercharlie

Jun 18, 2004, 01:14 pm

Hello:
I live on weekly/daily tips in my profession and I allot a certain $$ amount 1 or 2 days before wednesday. I rather enjoy geting my weekly/monthly fix. I like the cliffhanger sensation that I get whenI have to wait for the next issue.(Ie: Ultimate Spider-man).... Mashochistic if you will..but that works for me...

Alex Guillen

Jun 18, 2004, 01:54 pm

I enjoy single issues. Just the overall sense I get every month of reading a story and waiting until the next month for the next installment always makes reading comics worthwhile.
Sure Trades are cool and all but sometimes the stories should warrant them in the first place and not just publishing old arcs as Trades for a small market (especifically bad stories).

I think Trades should recollect stories that have passed one year since its publication. I'm not saying it's all bad with Trades but I think it cheapens the single issues in the market and the comic experience overall.

nekretaal

Jun 18, 2004, 01:59 pm

Comic book stores would love to do a switch to all-trades. Trades maximize revenue per-shelf space for the comic book store.

---------------------------

Back to my idea: all issues of all X-books are (6-issue) trades collected in "Uncanny X-men." Since the trades now come out in a monthly schedule, other X-books in the smaller format could also be produced from time to time.

I understand that NOBODY wants to wait 6 months for a continuation of a story, and while the whole point of larger, TPB-sized issues is to actually contain a whole story, I do understand that "setting up the Sequel," is part of encouraging your customers to buy into the next installment. But, on the other hand, if a story is paced for a trade, then it should be in a trade.

SO, if the rotating schedule is:

X-men
New X-men / Acadamy X / New Mutants
Uncanny X-men
Astonishing X-men
Wolverine
Mystique
Alpha Flight
District X
Emma Frost / Rogue / Gambit / Nightcrawler

Each creative team could put out 2 trades per year, and they could get some space in the previous story, say 6 pages, to set up and "bridge the gap" between that story and their story. So for example, the last pages of the "X-men" story would set up the "New X-men" story.

Bonus benefit: Wolverine being in every book would now make sense!

If a creator decided that his story was a shorter arc (say a 4-issue arc instead of a 6 issue arc), and it did not need the scope of a whole trade to tell the story, the extra space in the trade could, of course be filled with backstories, prequels of future stories, or even reprints of Classic X-men.

I'm not even proposing getting rid of single issue books: Loeb/Lee Batman, for example, was a great example of how to tell a story in the format, which is not dead. I am only advocating converting to trades as the primary format (and even then I'm cheating, because the books would come out monthly and be titled and Numbered Uncanny X-men: bigger issues instead of more issues).

------------------

I'm not a fan of anthologies, not at Marvel's or DC price-points. "Marvel Comics presents" barely had one story worth reading in its issues and those stories took place over 6-12 issues.

Altercation

Jun 18, 2004, 03:58 pm

I for one as a collecter would hate to see marvel go to trades as I don't read that many and the only one's I do read are the singles that came out a few years back before I started collecting. I do agree however that some comics should go straight to trade such as all the miniseries titles that marvel is coming out with like Spiderman/Doc Ock: Year One or the new X-Force miniseries that is going to come out. I however do not think that any of the marvel ongoing series should go right to trade like uncanny xmen of district x would just anger me if they started going straight to trade.

JayQ

Jun 18, 2004, 06:07 pm

I personally agree with most things that have been said so far. But I just want to bring up another point, as to why the evolution hasnt taken place yet. It would be a major loss of revenue. Im not really talking about the revenue from monthly issues, more specifically ad revenue. Im not sure how many ads are not house ads in a monthly issue, but it would still be a major loss. And being that trades dont really have ads, they would be more expenisive then they are now (I know they make a trade a lil more expensive then it would cost to buy the monthly instead) but I think the cost is subsisidized by the ads in monthlies and so tptb would have to raise prices of trades, to offset this, which would also lead to a loss of revenue. And because of that, it would just wouldnt make sense right now to switch formats, especially when they would make more money with both, then with one.

Bamfette

Jun 18, 2004, 08:44 pm

Originally posted by Pong
isn'tthat how the manga magazine/book shonen jump is done? it's like 5 bucks for a HUGE (and i mean HUGE) monthly book-zine that has like, 7 or 8 (or more, i dunno) different titles in them. one month owuld have.. ui dunno, issue 1 of "yu-gi-oh" and issue 6 of "naruto" and a whole smack load of other titles, then the next month, it would be issue 2 of yu-gi-oh and issue 7 of naruto, and so forth. i would buy them , but i'm not a huge manga fan.

however, i think the only reason is the whole price issue. i'm a reader, not a collector, so i don't care much but how much comcis are "worth" but rather how good of a read it is. and often, tades are much cheaper then the singles.. i mean, just lok at teen titans. 15 bucks (canadian) for the trade!?!?! SIGN ME UP! but those hardcover trades are ridiculous.. like the firs volume of superman batman is 42 bucks or osemthing canadian. i man. wtf is up with that. i don't need a hardcover.

That is how most manga is sold in Japan. they collect stories of a similar theme into anthologies directed towards specific demographics. (boy comics, girl comics, kid comics, adult comics, etc.) The best sellers exceed 5 million, Shonen Sunday, and Shonen Jump. Those are boy comics. Girl comics sell around the same, or a little less, and alternative stuff sells down around 1 million or less. so they are obviously doing SOMETHING right. though their attitude towards comics as a society in general, and their distribution system aslo help a great deal towards selling that many.... after the anthologies are released, they eventually collect all of one story into digest trades. the most popular of those are also selling in the millions, and are what people usually see in America, imported by Tokyopop and the like. infact, they sell more than the single issues. Chuck was telling me just a week or so ago, (we were talking about this EXACT same thing) that he had asked Kia one time why he wanted to work on X-Men back when he was still drawing the book, if the American market was so small, and what his stuff sold in Japan. Kia told him that he had a trade coming out the next day that had an initial print run of 5 million copies. and Kia isn't one of the biggest sellers in Japan... and Tokyopop and Vis are kicking Marvel and DC's asses in the American market selling Managa to the American public. they just don't show up on the sales charts everyone sees every month because they aren't distributed via Diamond. and, according to Variety, Shonen Jump (put out by Vis in the US) sells 300,000 in the American market. oh, hey, whadda ya know, that's more than the Azzarello/Lee Superman everyone's so excited about! :p http://weblogs.variety.com/bags_and_boards/2003/11/sales_jump.html

I know many in this thread prefer reading in pamphlet format. i buy many of my favorite titles in pamphlet format. but a publisher can't put something out in a format the general public isn't interested in and then try and force them to like it. they have to adapt their product to the general public. and we AREN'T the general public, we are the fringe fanbase of a few hundred thousand keeping the industry afloat, when the potential fanbase of the general public is in the tens of millions. of course by the same argument you can't force the die hards to like a new format after buying the pamphlets for years. no one's talking about a sudden change, just BAM one day it's ALL trades and OGN's. just saying that maybe publishers should focus their attention on Trades MORE than the comics, not the other way around.

and to the person who said 15 bucks was too steep for a book... you do realize that (assuming the norm of 6 issues per trade) if you buy the exact same content in single issues it can cost like $20, right?

and i HATE this hack that directs you to the main page after a certain ammount of time. I'm trying to look up sales figures, and i lose my whole post... >.<

Dan

Jun 19, 2004, 12:58 am

I was in the middle of typing up a lengthy response to this a few hours back when all of a sudden, my power went out. Frustrating, to say the least.

Anyway, I'd like to respond to a few of the points Mr. Phillips made, and make a few of my own.

"It suits the story structures". While this is a strong reason for trades to exist, it's not a strong reason for the singles not to. In fact, one could also take it another way: it's much easier for editorial to tell writers to start doing issues that work as stand-alones (which can be done while still working within an arc format, or by simply abandoning arcs), than it is for a publisher to shift the entire focus of how they do things.

Drawn out stories: There's ways to defeat this without abandoning single issues. Write the story, then decide how many issues it needs, instead of setting the number and trying to make the story fit. When it comes to later putting the stories into trade, you can either do shorter 4-issue trades, or include multiple arcs (some Marvel trades already include more than one arc as it is, and the majority of the hardcovers do).

While you're right that direct-to-trade writing allows for more freedom as to length of chapters (or abandoning chapters altogether), the format does have it's own restrictions in numbers of pages. Price is a factor, and of course there are upper limits to how thick a perfect-bound softcover trade can be.

Your price numbers strike me as a bit off, and seem to ignore a key aspect of the way things are currently priced. Marvel and DC trades are priced as low as they are in large part because the initial production costs for the content have already been paid in part or in full by the single issues. In order to compensate for the loss of that money that would result from going directly to trades, costs per trade would increase significantly.

While trades are sold in places that single issues aren't, I wouldn't phrase it that they're sold in places that single issues CAN'T be. Single issues can be sold everywhere that trades can be, as far as I can think of (and some places that trades can't), it's simply a matter of making them an appealing product for the stores to carry. I don't think that's an impossible task.

I agree that, to a large extent, the increased wait wouldn't be a factor. While I do find waiting for the titles I collect in trade format frustrating, that's in large part due to the fact that others I know who collect the same titles collect them in singles, so that by the time I can get involved in any conversation about the material, they're already an arc ahead of me. If everyone had the same wait, that source of frustration would be gone.

While durability, and the secondary costs needed to maintain my collection, helped contribute to my own decision to switch to trades on several titles, I think you underestimate how many readers DON'T care about maintaining the material. For some, as long as it's readable, it's fine. For others, it's not important at all whether they can read it again once they've read it once. Many still view the single issue as it used to be for most people: disposable entertainment. Going entirely to trades shuts some of these people out of reading comics.

Many of the people I know who are most adamant about singles are in fact people who AREN'T in it for collecting, for the secondary market value, etc., but are in it for the entertainment. They want their monthly fix of characters and concepts they enjoy.

To get to your three reasons to abandon single issues.

1. As I addressed above, that the current trend is to write for trade length stories does not provide any reason at all to abandon singles. The trades still come, and people still buy the singles, or trades, or both. Simply because the story reads better in one format (which is the current trend, isn't guaranteed to last, and isn't the case for all titles) doesn't mean you abandon another format that's still selling.

2. Money? The current trade programs are monetarily supported by the single issues. Creative costs are covered by single issues. Readers can test whether they like the title or not by sampling a single issue (they could also sample by reading a section in the store, but why, when people are willing to pay for a sample, would you only give away free samples?). Without the single issue format, prices on trades would go up. Singles also provide revenue through advertising: trades, at this point, contain no advertising, thus there's more lost revenue that has to be compensated for. Publishing single issue comics makes money. Not a heck of a lot of money, but unprofitable titles generally get cancelled.

If they're making a profit, then they're getting more money out than they're putting in. So taking away the money invested into singles and putting it into trades only makes sense if it's at least equally profitable, and probably only if it's more profitable (if the two are equally profitable, there's no reason to change the status quo, as nothing is gained from a financial standpoint).

3. It's interesting you bring up advertising, given that you seem to have ignored the role of it as a source of income. Here you refer only to the comic company itself doing the advertising.

Where, precisely, are they to do their advertising?

The vast majority of the advertising that DC and Marvel currently do is in the pages of their own monthly titles. If they followed your proposal, they'd be giving up this method of promoting their other titles.

----

I'll return later to make some more points, and to address some of the comments in the thread, but I'll conclude here by saying I don't think you've considered all of the ramifications of switching to trades (or, to be more accurate here, switching to original graphic novels) as the primary method of publication. Nor do I think you've made a good case for abandoning the single issue format.

Lowry

Jun 19, 2004, 04:33 am

Originally posted by Alex Groff
. When I was in Hagerspatch on Monday, a mom came in with her son and told him, "Now you can spend up to $5, and that's it." And someone will say, pfft, $5, whatever-- but kids are the fan base we need to build, and if they're priced out of range then we lose them.

I agree with this point. I got into comics as a kid, and I know for a fact that I wouldn't have had I had to shell out the price of a paperback novel, even if it was more pages. I think a switch to trades at double digit prices would severely limit the numbers of new readers coming in.

I also do not think that having trades would increase readership because they would be sold in more places. Face it, most people buy their reading material at Barnes and Noble, Borders, etc. Large chain store would be reluctant to devote a large amount of shelf space to a wide array of books, and smaller stores just wouldnt have space. This would actually lessen people's ability to get a wide range pf product.

Dan

Jun 19, 2004, 05:03 am

Originally posted by Paul
Interesting column, Joel. This is an issue I have actually thought about before, in particular with reference to Marvel's Runaways book.

To all intents and purposes, the recent trade-digest volume collecting #1-6 was a great success, making this series available to a much wider audience than the singles, a fact that I believe was at least partly influential in ensuring that this series continues past #18.

My suggestion was that Marvel may be better off turning this into a straight-to-trade book, rather than putting out the monthly single issues and then collecting them. Yes, there would be an extended wait between trades, but it's sales would be a culmination of both the regular trade buyers, plus those who previously bought the single issues.

I do also agree with pokerman's point that there's always going to be someone that is alienated.

However, it is also worth mentioning that Brian K. Vaughan is one of the few writers who's arcs work as a collection of single issues, rather than one drawn out storyline.

Sorry if this has sounded like a party political broadcast on behalf of Brian K Vaughan, but I just like the way he writes single issues (plus I've just this minute finished reading Ex Machina #1, which I feel is a very satisfactory single issue, while also being part of something larger)

I rather enjoy his work too (Y: The Last Man is one of the books I get in trade form, Runaways I have both the singles and the digest, and Ex Machina I'm getting singles, and may purchase trades if/when they are offered).

With a title like Runaways, though, the chances are that if Marvel was only in the business of doing original graphic novels, and not monthly comics, it never would have been published.

For the publisher and the reader, the single issue format makes trying something new less of a gamble. Given how safe most publishers and most readers play it anyway, imagine how much safer we'd all play if the investment at each level was larger?

I know that personally, I've passed on things I was curious about because I didn't want to spend $15 or more on an unfamiliar concept/creator.

I buy a lot of stuff from Oni. I think that they've got some great talents working with them, and that they do a good job of giving up and comers a shot. They're also extremely reliable about putting out trades of their miniseries (they don't have ongoings. Love Fights was supposed to be ongoing, but plans have since changed), with, as far as I can tell, every mini that gets completed, as well as several one shots, being collected in digest-sized trades (they also occasionally put out larger standard sized trades, for instance their reprints of the Madman collections). However, unlike Marvel or DC, where one can be reasonably sure that your retailer is going to order in a copy of each series they launch, Oni is one of those companies that many retailers don't order from without specific requests. I'm lucky in that my primary shop is one of the places that does order much of what they put out (my last place didn't, which is part of the reason I made the switch). Still, I know they don't get everything, so I keep an eye on Oni's section in Previews, and order any new books that catch my eye, as well as every new digest of my favourites (Chynna-Clugston Major's Blue Monday, Jen Van Meter's Hopeless Savages). Recently, however, they've been putting out more OGN's. Some of them have looked pretty interesting, but I was faced with a dilemma. I already spend more than I should on comics. Do I want to order in an untried book, when for the same money, I can sample three or four single issue properties? Usually, the answer winds up being no.

I don't know how typical I am when it comes to comics readers. I think it's safe to say that there's many others out there who have similar purchasing habits though. When faced with the choice between trying one large chunk of something I'm unsure of, or three small chunks of things I'm unsure of, I'm probably going to sample the three instead. Then I know if I like them, and when future collections are offered, I know which ones to get, and which not to bother with.

DKBatman

Jun 19, 2004, 05:58 pm

I really have no problem with the idea of doing singles and then trades, which is what the industry does now. Im about at the point, though, where single issues are out of my buying range. I buy so many trades, and I end up picking up the same stuff twice so what is the point? I think trades are the best and brightest thing for the comic industry... i wouldnt still be a fan without them.

Elder Raven

Jun 20, 2004, 03:14 pm

I stand as a proponent for the trades. If they were to plan ahead and stagger the delivery, I could see each month seeing the release of a TPB. Say in September, we see the release of the fill-in issues of UXM. The following month we see the release of the ongoing TPB (132 pages) released. With the proper planning, XMN would follow suit the next month, then EXC...the DistricX...and so on and so on. It can be done but I really don't see it happening.

How about bringing back the Marvel Must Haves and set it up with a sub-heading. How about as follows:

MMH: X-Men collecting X-Men, Gambit & Rogue for the previous month.
MMH: Uncanny X-Men collecting Uncanny X-Men, District X and Exiles for the previous month
MMH: Wolverine collecting Wolverine, Weapon X and Jubilee for the previous month
MMH: Excalibur collecting Excalibur, Mistique and Madrox for the previous month
etc...

Now the above are X-Men centric but you get the gist. They could be sold for $5.99 so that they are a little less but the interest might be there in this format. The original format came out too late so few were interested in picking it up. This would allow people to purchase issues of other books that they might not normally pick-up because of the $2.99 cover price even though they are fantastic reads.

Well that's my two cents whether anyone asked or not. Have fun.

Rich L

Jun 21, 2004, 11:27 am

While I think that moving entirely to trades may in principle be a good idea, I think that it would be a horrendous idea in the long run. Consider the economics of it:

In a single issue of an average big two book, you get 22 pages of story for $3, plus (say) 7 pages of external ads, and 3 pages of in-house ads. For every page of story, you pay about 13.6 cents, plus 1/3 of a page of external ads plus 1/10 of a page of house ads. Don't forget that these external ads are part of the cost of the book; if you ran a 32 page book with 30 pages of story, it would likely cost closer to $4.50, or 15 cents per page (not sure of the exact numbers, but lets say that that's an example but it certainly won't push the cost per page down) . So, for $4.50 you get 30 pages of story and 2 pages of house ads (you still need to cross advertise, so you'll never get rid of these entirely).

Now if you take a trade that would consist of, for example 132 pages, in single issue form you currently pay $18 to read it with the ads; if you didn't have the singles, you'd lose the advertising income entirely; an element of that income will currently subsidise the trade productions, so you're talking about paying at a minimum the higher rate per page - 15 cents x 132 pages; just under $20 - and that's conservative. And thats without factoring in additional cost for the binding and covers. Even though the companies may shift additional units, they won't shift enough to completely eradicate the vast amount of advertising income that they receive.
Plus, trades would carry a higher number of in house ads.

There's also a cashflow practicality to consider; at the moment, an issue gets completed say three months prior to publication. Lets say you pay the freelancer a month after completion, you're out of pocket for two months until the sales from the issue comes in. If you're producing trades on a 6 monthly schedule, you still need to pay the freelancers before they finish the whole trade (because they have to eat!), so you'll be paying out at least four months prior to any revenues coming in for those issues!

Finally, you need a nice selection of trades spread over every month of the year - hell, every week - so you can stabilise your revenue. Which means a release of - at a minimum - two trades a week; equivalent to over a 100 books per year, or 50 titles - not that far off where the big companies are currently. Which means that if you buy a number of titles, you could quickly be spending $40-$100 per month just to follow them.

Sorry folks, but it just don't work that way; the market in Japan is very different from the established marketplace in the US.

nekretaal

Jun 22, 2004, 07:03 pm

Well, I guess that the next time somebody writes a column on the subject we'll need to see (or even hypothecate) numbers.

Meanwhile, questions abound:

(1) Why would per-page costs increase for larger books? Are there economies of scale where larger books could have smaller per-page costs?

(2) Could suggested retail prices of TPB actually be lowered from their current price-points if circulation numbers for the books could be increased?

(3) Since Advertising is today mostly sold in "block grants," where an advertisor gets advertisements in all of the company's books that week (month), would advertising revenues even change if readership came in different forms?

(4) What price-points maximize new readership willing to "try out" the book?

(5) Are readers willing to pay more for a higher quality product?

A shift to Trades (or magazine sized magazines) would definately involve a price increase for consumers, becauuse books would cost more and because customers would be forced to decide right away whether the purchase was worth the money. However, customers would love that they saved some money and were purchaisng a superior product. How much these two forces counterbalance, I don't know, but I suspect that the model would work best on the licenses with the most hard-core fanbases: X-men, Spiderman. (The recent sucesses of Transformers suggest that there exist licenses which aren't currently being published which also might attract a strong fanbase)