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View Full Version : DID I THINK THAT OUT LOUD?!? #36: OF ICE AND MEN


Jim Lemoine
May 10, 2004, 05:10 pm
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/logos/dittol_logo.gif" align=left border=0 alt="Did I Think That Out Loud?!? logo">By Jim Lemoine, jimlemoine@comixfan.cjb.net

Of Ice And Men

If you would have asked me when I was a kid, I would have said I liked Firestar better. To be honest, I guess I still do. I'd say, "She's hot," but that would be a terrible pun, so I won't.

Of all of the original X-Men, there's something about Bobby Drake that I've always found very interesting. He wasn't my favorite, nor was he the most well-developed, nor did he have the most backstory. In fact, of all of Xavier's first class, Marvel readers have seen less of Iceman than we have of any of the others. He may have been the sole X-Man to land a regular slot on an 80's cartoon, and one of the few to make it into a really crappy Nintendo Entertainment System X-Men game, but in the comics? Of all the founders, Bobby Drake was left out in the cold.

Ouch. Just realized what I wrote - I assure you, dear reader, this isn't Batman & Robin. Promise not to do that again.

A lot is made of Cyclops' status as "The First X-Man," a cool title to be sure. But who was the second? Well, if you believe the original chronology as presented in those early back-up stories in X-Men (no slight intended to Casey's awesome Children of the Atom mini-series, by the way), Iceman was the second to join Professor X's squad... and sure, you could argue for Jean because of her childhood tutelage with the Professor, but the second to don the uniform of the X-Men? It was Iceman, all the way.

Bobby Drake was patterned by X-Men creators Stan Lee and Jack Kirby after one of their most successful creations: Johnny Storm, the Human Torch. In fact, one could easily argue that the entire team was based on Johnny, but for obvious reasons, Johnny and Bobby were the true counterparts. They were both the youngest members of their teams, they both had basically the same power (control of thermal energy), they were both the class clowns, and they were both even skinnier than Reed Richards. The youngest X-Man even teamed up with the youngest of the Fantastic way back in Strange Tales #120, wherein Bobby pulled a Peter Parker and started hitting on the Torch's girlfriend! Iceman was the kid brother of the X-Men, and boy did it show... earning time for "free play" from Professor X, and wearing those cute little boots over his snowy form.

Bobby matured a lot during his first tenure with the X-Men, both personally and professionally. He ditched the boots, he refined his powers, and he did a bit of growing up... but it was never quite enough to keep up with the other X-Men. In a way, Iceman became the "Wolverine" of the original X-Men: hot-headed, spoiling for a fight, without the tact of some of his teammates. The insecure Iceman was bad tempered and sometimes petty, and it's not hard to see why: his team consisted of a gorgeous woman (who had long spurned any advances he'd made), a daring team leader, a rich heartthrob, an erudite genius, and Bobby himself... a walking snowman. Things only got worse when the X-Men met Polaris and Havok; Bobby immediately fell in love with Lorna, who immediately fell in love with Alex. Spurned again, it was a rejection that Bobby never quite got over, and the rumblings of it remain to this day.

Bobby was constantly outdone by his older, more glamorous, more successful teammates. He had long since left his first girlfriend Zelda, Jean had never returned his advances, and Lorna Dane, the woman whose life he had personally saved, had turned him down in favor of the brother of the guy who got Jean. Bobby was doomed to always be the kid of the group, and in his own mind at least, to never be taken seriously. Is it any wonder he left the X-Men? It'd be like staying in an office where promotion was impossible, or in a singles bar where only the guys were single. Who would want to stay?

Of course, his original departure from the X-Men has never been fully explained, as to my knowledge it's never been revealed what originally made him return to the team (just in time to be kidnapped by Krakoa in the classic Giant Sized X-Men #1). I'd imagine that it was simply a lack of anything better to do. After all, Bobby's education at Xavier's had never prepared him for any kind of career outside of superheroing! And deep down, Bobby did care about his friends. Despite his personality flaws (or perhaps, even more impressive, due to them) Bobby was a real hero who cared about other people. So Iceman was again an X-Man... for a little while, at least.

Iceman solidly left the X-Men after Professor X recruited Banshee, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Storm, Sunfire, Thunderbird, and Wolverine to form the team's second generation. Why did he go? It was mostly peer pressure, probably; after all, all of his friends were leaving - at the time he made his decision, the original X-Men were assuming that Cyclops was leaving with them. But there were probably other aspects to Bobby's choice: his remaining anger at Havok and Polaris, his feeling of junior membership, a sense of betrayal that Professor X didn't tell him when the Changeling replaced him, no familiarity with all the new heroes, and the sinking realization that even if he stayed, he'd still be the youngest X-Man, except for maybe Colossus.

Of all of Xavier's original X-Men, Bobby Drake had the most reasons to dislike the team when he left. Thus, it's not surprising that he was the one who stayed away the longest. Cyclops, of course, stayed on as team leader. Jean returned just a few issues after her supposed departure, became Phoenix, and served as a core member of the X-Men. The Beast took a leave of absence or two from the Avengers to help out his old teammates, joining them against Magneto, among others. The Angel would return to help his friends in their darkest hour, battling the Hellfire Club and Dark Phoenix. But through all these formative years of the new X-Men, Bobby Drake stayed away. He joined Warren Worthington's short-lived Champions on a lark, but he mostly just stayed in college.

This at first seemed out of character: why would the X-Men's resident hothead, the glory-seeker, subject himself to the mundanity of a college education... studying accounting, of all things? As comic book titles go, Bobby the Super-Accountant doesn't exactly instill fear in the hearts of villains. And why would he stay so long from the X-Men, only returning once to join an extremely short-term squad liberating the X-Men's loved ones from Murderworld?

The answer to the second question is easier: Iceman had a lot of built-up resentment toward Xavier and most of his teammates. He didn't feel like a real part of the X-Men anymore, and probably privately wondered if he'd been wasting his time with them. This leads to the answer to the first question: Bobby went to college and studied accounting because he wanted to differentiate himself from his former teammates. While they gallivanted around the globe playing superhero, Bobby was trying to make something of himself in a traditional, responsible manner. Sure, he joined the Champions for a while, but don't forget that when the Black Widow, Hercules, and Ghost Rider walked out on Warren, Bobby joined them, thus insuring the team's demise.

And you could argue that it was at this point in his life that Bobby was, ironically, at his most mature and confident. Iceman made for a great student, and genuinely seemed to take to his business education (inspired, perhaps, by his buddy Warren). When he briefly returned to the X-Men, he was mature and capable, even to the point of finally dropping his grudge against Alex and Lorna. However, he remembered his pledge to stick by his education and left the X-Men as soon as he was no longer needed.

Time passed... a lot of time. It was time enough for Bobby to move past his youngest-and-least-glamorous hangups, and time enough for him to forget just how unlucky at love he'd always been. He was finally over his insecurities, over Jean, over Lorna, and over Darkstar, the Russian mutant he'd met through the Champions, fallen in love with, and been completely rejected by. Time heals all wounds, and when he had the opportunity to rejoin Warren and the Beast to form a new team of Defenders, Bobby jumped at it, despite the protestation of his parents. He'd done the responsible thing for a while and satisfied his parents, and he probably hadn't found it too satisfying; it was time to take another crack at the madcap life of the hero.

Rumors have abounded for years about the question of Bobby's sexuality - I'm not personally sure if those rumors started when people noticed that Bobby always seemed to be teaming himself with Warren Worthington (often described as one of the most handsome men in the Marvel Universe), or when Bobby's next romance played itself out during his time with the New Defenders. Iceman met a Russian orphan named Cloud (who was very similar to his lost Darkstar), and found himself, yet again, immediately falling head over heels in love with her.

Then she turned into a man.

Then she turned into a cloud nebula. No joke: check out the final issues of New Defenders if you don't believe me.

And I freely admit, if I were Bobby, after all that had happened, it would have been at this point that I would have gone cheerfully and irrevocably insane.

Bobby, however, was made of stronger stuff, and even when the Defenders collapsed, he still wasn't ready to pack it in and give it up. Perhaps his educational experience really had paid off: even if he wasn't a world-class accountant, at least he was more willing to deal with failure, and better skilled at coping with the aftermath. When the original X-Men reformed to create X-Factor, Bobby happily joined his friends, no longer worried about lost loves or age differences.

It was at this point in the comics that our tales of the Iceman stopped being about Bobby as a person, and more about Bobby as a superhero. His college career and past experiences were mostly forgotten as Bobby moved into the background, serving as a supporting character for more popular mutants like Cyclops and the Beast, and later, the new Angel of Death. Stories about Iceman now revolved around his powers rather than his personality, a trend that would last over a decade. Loki tinkered with Iceman's powers - they went out of control. Iceman started wearing a belt to control them - then he generated enough ice to freeze the Empire State Building. Mikhail Rasputin and Emma Frost both told him that he was ignoring his true potential - Bobby started experimenting with his iceform. These were all decent stories, but they were stories about superpowers... not stories about a person.

And along the way, Iceman had a few more doomed relationships, surprise, surprise - from the mutant Infectia (who, as it turned out, was just trying to kill him) to Opal Tanaka (whose family was tied in to the Yakuza Clan) to a girl named Marge (who left Bobby to join her father... ummm... Oblivion. Don't ask.). It was almost as painful to read as it must have been to experience, because although Bobby was a little full of himself and kind of arrogant, deep down this guy was a hero in the most noble sense of the word. And he never, never, never had the slightest bit of luck with the girls, a trend that continues to this day and probably gives Northstar hope.

Although he really was a great guy deep down and a true hero when you needed him, Iceman was never as passionate about it as some of the others like Scott or Hank. Unlike those mutants, Bobby Drake was perfectly capable of looking human, of completely hiding his mutant power... small wonder he didn't stand up as much for mutant rights as mutants like Archangel or Nightcrawler. Some of the best Iceman stories, though, came from one of the creatively worst eras of the X-Men... the nineties stories about Bobby's father, the racist bigot. Much like his behavior when faced with an evil supervillain, Bobby came into his own when faced with the sheer stupidity of his father's views, standing up for himself in a way rarely exhibited. Rare stories like this one showed us the heroism Iceman was truly capable of.

Of course, later writers would completely ruin this dynamic by making his father abruptly transform into a champion of mutant rights, a move too unrealistic and unexplained to be believable.

These days, Iceman is again a core member of the X-Men... although you honestly have to wonder why. Bobby always seemed most content when he was on the move, doing things away from the main team. Sure, he's always been proud of his "founding member" status, and never shy to show it off, but that hasn't really brought him the respect or authority that he's been seeking. Perhaps due to his father's injuries, perhaps due to discomfort with a changing mutant arena, or perhaps due to simple writing inconsistency, Bobby has regressed quite a bit from where he was during his days with the Defenders and X-Factor. He's gone back to being a bit obnoxious, a bit arrogant, and more than a bit immature (as revealed by his continuing territoriality regarding Lorna Dane).

It's fun to read Bobby serving on Havok's team, though, because his return to immaturity has also meant a return to really, really not liking Alex Summers. From Iceman's viewpoint, Alex is riding in on his brother's coattails, supplanting his bud Warren as team leader. To make things worse, (still from Bobby's perspective) that ungrateful wretch Alex has ditched and abandoned poor Lorna, and as if that wasn't enough, he's making time with Nurse Annie (who Bobby was nuzzling just before Alex's aborted wedding). Bobby has every reason (real or imagined) to detest Alex Summers, and I for one look forward to finding out how it all plays out.

Iceman is a great character and fun to read because he's your trademark imperfect hero. Powerful, yes, but insecure. Experienced, yes, but arrogant. Handsome, yes, but possessing some of the worst luck in the romantic arena that I've ever seen. In a lot of ways, Iceman is a total hard-luck hero who can't bring himself to admit just how poor his fortunes have been... unless it serves to make Alex look bad or feel guilty.

Iceman's not my favorite founding X-Man, but when handled right, he's definitely the most fun to read.

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A few months ago, Jim Lemoine (ComiX-Fan's Columns Editor) completed the manuscript for his first book, an examination of business leadership. Oddly enough, his second book is being published this summer, while his first book is still delayed by guys in expensive suits. He's still looking for that giant Ninja Iceman action figure.

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The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of ComiX-Fan or its other staff in general.

NicholasRogue
May 10, 2004, 05:21 pm
Good column. I think Bobby needs to go to a therapist myself. Maybe a sex therapist... :emma: lol. or just give up and admit that he too likes :nstar:

Alex/Ames
May 10, 2004, 05:21 pm
Nice article!
I'm not sure why, but I've always liked Bobby more than any other X Men, or at least, on the same level as Beast and Colossus, my favourites....

He just always clicked with me. Great character....

benbacca37
May 10, 2004, 05:45 pm
Very interesting and informative article. I think it would be interesting to see Iceman become a leader on one of the teams. Give him a new challenge, he certainly has the powers if he would ever learn to use them to their potential. Along with having untapped potential in his powers, the potential for stories with him is also untapped.

Gat0r-ManX
May 10, 2004, 06:02 pm
iceman's always been on the top of my list of favorite x-men. and out of all the x-men, i think his powers are NOT written quite well.

he reminds me of peter parker... with all that badluck

AtomR
May 10, 2004, 06:03 pm
"And along the way, Iceman had a few more doomed relationships, surprise, surprise - from the mutant Infectia (who turned out to be a murderous Horseman of Apocalypse) "

I don't really remember what infectia wanted with iceman ( a sample of his dna IIRC) but she wasn't the woman who became the Horseman of Apocalipse Pestilence. Pestilence was a Morlock with the power to infect people with deseases that Apoccalypse saved from the morlocks tunnels during the Mutant Massacre.
I know this doesn't have anything to do with your article but I just though I'd point this out.

It can also be speculated that Iceman may have had a crush for Rogue when the both of them upped and went on a road trip for a while. I don't really care wether Iceman is gay or not but I don't think there is much from his past that can lead to that conclusion.

Great article however.

jtjr26
May 10, 2004, 06:08 pm
I agree Iceman :iceman: needs either more responsibility or a challenge to help him realize some of the potential he has and has been hinted at for some time. He needs to get over Lorna and stop bitching and moaning about his gigantic and numberous romantic failures. How about getting Bobby a real girlfriend, mutant or otherwise. One that he dosen't distance himself from because of his duties as a superhero/mutant cop/ adventurer (take your pick), and a woman who accepts who he is and what that requires.

Just my 2 cents worth

Matt Lazorwitz
May 10, 2004, 06:13 pm
Great article, Jim. I agree with all your points, and really am looking forward to when Bobby finally slugs Alex.

Jim Lemoine
May 10, 2004, 06:17 pm
Originally posted by AtomR
I don't really remember what infectia wanted with iceman ( a sample of his dna IIRC) but she wasn't the woman who became the Horseman of Apocalipse Pestilence. Pestilence was a Morlock with the power to infect people with deseases that Apoccalypse saved from the morlocks tunnels during the Mutant Massacre.
I know this doesn't have anything to do with your article but I just though I'd point this out.

Oops. My mistake, and apologies to all. I always get Infectia and Pestilence mixed up.

John Gleason
May 10, 2004, 06:20 pm
Nice article. I have never really liked Iceman myself and most of the reasons I don't like him were brought up here. Though I do agree it can be fun sometimes to read stories about him.

M-Angel
May 10, 2004, 06:32 pm
i like Iceman, I mean I´m only seventeen still a teenager, I´ve never had the girls I´ve liked and that doesnt mean I need a sex therapist and neither does it mean that I have a thing for Northstar´s team

great article

Vector
May 10, 2004, 06:47 pm
Wasn't Iceman's reasons for leaving the team after Giant Size X-Men shown in a backup story in Classic X-Men 1?
I seem to remember him being very resentful of the new team.

Forgive me if it was mentioned in the article.

Joxer487
May 10, 2004, 07:09 pm
good read, i havent liked how Austen or any writer of later has written Bobby, and since that mini series(the name escapes me) with Phoenix Iceman Juggernaut Mystique, there hasnt been any real evolution of Bobby's powers.

Patrick James
May 10, 2004, 07:13 pm
Jim, just for writing this column, you rock:guitar:

BTW, I have that Ninja Iceman ation figure...:shame:

I love the points you make and the elloquence you make them with. Good stuff and very informative. Oh, and timely too, as Austen's X-Men Reload is supposed to largely star Bobby in the first few months.:iceman:

Oh, and X-Men: The Hidden Years took care of explaining how Iceman was back with the team in time for Krakoa's kidnapping.

Anthony Lucynski
May 10, 2004, 07:17 pm
As you all know, my favorite character ever is Deadpool. What you may not know is that my second favorite character is Iceman. What i'm kind of embarrased to admit was the one time I took a stab at fan fiction, it was a story involving Iceman.

So much potential in this character.

God, Jim. thanks for the column. Made my day :)

Anthony L

Toga
May 10, 2004, 07:27 pm
Originally posted by Joxer487
good read, i havent liked how Austen or any writer of later has written Bobby, and since that mini series(the name escapes me) with Phoenix Iceman Juggernaut Mystique, there hasnt been any real evolution of Bobby's powers.

that was X-Men Forever, in which Bobby got some nice play. also included toad.

awesome article Jim, what u do makes us appreciate the characters we love even more.

Brian Geers
May 10, 2004, 07:38 pm
Originally posted by AtomR
I don't really remember what infectia wanted with iceman ( a sample of his dna IIRC)


Actually, if memory serves, she wanted to transform him into one of her super, mind-controlled minions so that he could give her control of X-Factor's sentient headquarters, "Ship". I don't think it was ever made clear precisely why she wanted Ship (aside from her being a spoiled rich brat who got whatever she wanted, either through "Daddy's fortune" or by using her mutant powers). I think she singled out Bobby because he was the perfect combination of "good looking" (remember that Warren was blue, bald, and brooding at the time) and "easily duped." Bobby was meant to be a pawn, a tool, used up and thrown away in Infectia's quest for big, talking space vehicles.

Martin Dudek
May 10, 2004, 07:38 pm
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Wonderful job, Jim. Hit everything perfectly. I really enjoyed reading this article, not only because Bobby is by far my favorite character, but also because you analyzed him and his life so well.

If only one day a writer will treat him respectfully...

gnosis
May 10, 2004, 08:21 pm
He needs to get over Lorna and stop bitching and moaning about his gigantic and numberous romantic failures

With Austen at the helm? I can't see that happening.

Really good column. I do think it's kinda interesting that Bobby is one of the few X-Men who really tried to get out of the super-hero life. There's definitely something tragic in that every time he tried to leave he got pulled back into it.

TheRealIceman
May 10, 2004, 09:02 pm
Great article. Iceman is and always has been my favorite character, not only as an X-Man but as far as superheroes go as well.
I would love to see a writer really tap into the vast potential that has been there undiscovered. There is so much that could be done with Bobby but he always seems to be relegated to a mere supporting role or comedic relief. When you look at him as far as powers go he is easily one of the most powerful X characters.
I would like to see him become more of a leader on the team and I think it would be cool if he hooked up with Lorna as it would only add to the tension between him and Alex.
Hopefully Bobby just doesn't sit around twiddling his thumbs like is usually the case.

Jen Renee
May 10, 2004, 09:03 pm
:clap: Very well done. You got to the core of the character.

iceman06
May 10, 2004, 09:09 pm
That was a great article. As you could guess from my name and website, Iceman is my favorite X-Men. I remember him from Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends, and I was disappointed that Iceman wasn't with the X-Men when I began reading the comics. Here's to more great stories about Bobby Drake in the future.

DanielSummers
May 10, 2004, 09:21 pm
Unlike most, Bobby is my favorite original X-Man, mostly due to his underdog status. Imagine my excitment when, at the end of Operation: Zero Tolerance, Bobby acts in a leadership role, and single-handedly drops who had been played up as a major threat to all of mutantdom (?) Maybe I should add another charecter in the shadows to my signiture...

maggottman
May 10, 2004, 09:29 pm
When I first started reading the X-Men, it was the Operation:Zero Tolerance arc, so Iceman was, in a manner of speaking, the leader of the only X-Men team left uncaptured on Earth, albeit a team of one. I was going to hold this up as an example of his growth and maturity under pressure, but then I took a good look at exactly what happened. He barely managed to be there in time to save his charge, he led her from ambush to ambush, he was forced to team up with Marrow, and he followed bad info that led him right into Bastion's clutches and was seconds away from going to the big ice cube in the sky when the SHIELD forces set into motion by Senator Kelly arrived to save the day, making all of his heroics pretty well moot. So maybe it's not so good an example after all.
On a totally different note, I've gotten some old "New Defenders", and boy, was that a weird bit of storyline. The part that stood out the most for me was that every member, regardless of gender, had a moment where they may or may not have been hitting on Moondragon.

Oh, and, uh, apologies to DanielSummers for unitntentionally mocking his post. Regardless of how it looked it retrospect, Iceman the leader was very cool at the time. And further apologies for the unintended pun.

Jon Hancock
May 10, 2004, 09:56 pm
lovely stuff jimothy

i always liked bobby for being immature yet i envision him as having a real inner maturity and peace.

Iceman X4
May 10, 2004, 09:59 pm
:clap: Wonderfull column Jim :clap:. I have to say that i´m agree with you and is time to give Iceman the respect he deserve. He´s been my fovourite character since the fist time i saw him and i´m just tired of him still being the class clowm of the group with bad luck with the girls when he has the pottencial for beeing one of the best and powerfull X-MEN. BOBBY DRAKE NOW!!!!! ....................................:iceman:

cannonball
May 10, 2004, 10:07 pm
Superb article--really enjoyed it. Despite growing up in the Iceman rut that was the 90s, I've alway had a strong affinity for the character. Whether it was reading older stuff or the occassional recent story (like Operation: Zero Tolerance), saw there was a lot more to the character, which you very skillfully express here. Bobby is a great character, deserving of much more than he gets.

Oh and random, sad, pathetic anecdote: I was the happiest kid alive when some crafty trading got me an OverPower Iceman character card!

X-Dan
May 10, 2004, 10:18 pm
Great article, Jim. I got into X-Men comics WAY back in the early 80s specifically because of the "amazing friend" Iceman. And I've wincing at his shoddy treatment ever since. For some reason, readers love him. Writers don't. The #1 reason why Bobby had little to do with Claremont's X-Men was because Claremont wanted little to do with Bobby. He found Iceman to be aggressively uninteresting, and stated as much in interviews.

Iceman definitely got the most love during the Lobdell/Nicieza era. Not only was he powered up to kickass levels, not only was he given a king-sized dose of family drama (the whole William Drake/Graydon Creed brouhaha), but the seeds were planted for TWO potentially great romances: Iceman and Cecelia Reyes, and Iceman and Emma Frost.

Sadly, those subplots were ditched by subsequent writers, although Brian Wood briefly tried to reignite the Bobby/Emma thing in the pages of Generation X (see issue #57).

From Austen's run on Uncanny (insert screams of derision here), and from the line-up of back-to-being-adjectiveless X-Men, it seems clear that we're in for more pain with the Bobby/Lorna/Alex/Annie love rhombus. God help us all.

Nick Costanzo
May 10, 2004, 11:07 pm
Hey look I finally read one of these things all the way through ;)

Great article, though I have to say personally that its painful to read Bobby these days. As you said, it was a character regression that made no sense whatsoever, and a big reason I can't stand Austen's X-Men anymore is because he totally ruined Bobby for me, at least at the moment.

Arachne
May 10, 2004, 11:08 pm
I want them to make Bobby gay. I think it would be one of the bravest things Marvel could do with a character. It's easy with Northstar- we all know he's the "gay superhero". But to actually have a character that has been around for so long and that has such a history, to have him finally come to terms with his sexuality (cause I am on of those fans that believe that Bobby's background is leading up to this) would be a wonderful and intelligent layer to add to the books.

Martin Dudek
May 10, 2004, 11:39 pm
Originally posted by Arachne
But to actually have a character that has been around for so long and that has such a history, to have him finally come to terms with his sexuality

To retcon a part of who he is...

I'm all for more gay characters appearing in the books, but I am adament against the changing of characters that already exist (especially ones who have been around as long as Bobby, who have shown nothing to point to him being secretly gay).

Why is this the only conversation anyone ever wants to have about Bobby?

Dylan McKay
May 10, 2004, 11:48 pm
Bobby is one of my favourite X-Characters, and honestly, I don't know why.

I can't help but think what he needs is an artist plotter to make him big, because I think his biggest strength is his amazing visual potential. He seems more like an artist's character rather than a writer's character.

Mojo
May 10, 2004, 11:52 pm
Originally posted by Icey


To retcon a part of who he is...

I'm all for more gay characters appearing in the books, but I am adament against the changing of characters that already exist (especially ones who have been around as long as Bobby, who have shown nothing to point to him being secretly gay).

Why is this the only conversation anyone ever wants to have about Bobby?

And now it's going to consume this thread. Instead of discussing characterization and whatnot it'll be a discussion on sexuality and just a general argument that will go nowhere.

Firelion
May 10, 2004, 11:58 pm
Originally posted by X-Dan
Sadly, those subplots were ditched by subsequent writers, although Brian Wood briefly tried to reignite the Bobby/Emma thing in the pages of Generation X (see issue #57).


You are about 90% right, X-Dan. Jay Faerber, not Brian Wood, was the writer who briefly touched upon the Bobby/Emma relationship in Gen X #57, the prom ish. Brian Wood, from what I recall, never mentioned the budding relationship when he took over shortly thereafter.

And, Jim, great article. Your assessment of Drake was spot-on, even if there was no mention of Lev. Heh.

Take it easy.

Mojo
May 11, 2004, 12:01 am
Originally posted by Firelion


You are about 90% right, X-Dan. Jay Faerber, not Brian Wood, was the writer who briefly touched upon the Bobby/Emma relationship in Gen X #57, the prom ish. Brian Wood, from what I recall, never mentioned the budding relationship when he took over shortly thereafter.

And, Jim, great article. Your assessment of Drake was spot-on, even if there was no mention of Lev. Heh.

Take it easy.

Lev and Zelda: The two of Drake's only normal girls. I move for Zelda returning to the books and thus giving Drake something of a normal girl to chase after. After all it is my view that Drake represents the every-man of the X-Men. Probably even Xavier's greatest success, a character who is able to give up the mansion and live a normal life and do it multiple times even.

PolarisLover
May 11, 2004, 12:20 am
Bobby and Lorna forever!!! :D

dopplegager
May 11, 2004, 12:40 am
Great article. Bobby can be a fun charecter to read but he was stuck in the background when he could have had the most charecter growth in the nineties.

Austin's x-men are anoying me. Clarenont should be given austin's book and since chris doesnt care for bobby lets give him to whedon.

PolarisLover
May 11, 2004, 12:50 am
I don't want Claremont to get Austen's book because Austen is at least giving Polaris the center stage. I can't wait to see what he has in store for her. Anyway, Bobby is a great character that deserves development. He's been around for so long. I hope Austen gives him some major character development in the upcoming arcs.

Joel Phillips
May 11, 2004, 12:53 am
I love these deep character examinations you do, Jim. They're always well thought out, and they prove I'm not the only one who spends way too much time thinking about these characters and the kind of people they are.

Iceman IS my favorite of the founding five by far. He's a writer's dream character because there are so many different ways to take him. (He also happens to have the best power of the founding five, in my opinion.) Anyway, great column!

X-Dan
May 11, 2004, 01:07 am
Originally posted by Firelion
You are about 90% right, X-Dan. Jay Faerber, not Brian Wood, was the writer who briefly touched upon the Bobby/Emma relationship in Gen X #57, the prom ish.

D'oh! You're right, of course. Must've been a brain glitch.

But since we're here dredging up the old romantic failures of Bobby's past, I do recall a guest appearance in a very old Hulk annual, where Bobby learns that his fickle college girlfriend was just using him to get close to Warren. Is it any wonder he's so insecure?

cindercatz
May 11, 2004, 01:34 am
X-cellent character study. I know I always want Iceman in the books somewhere. He adds a dimension to the team that is irreplaceable (much like the unjustly departed Colossus and Psylocke..). I'll always enjoy reading Iceman stories.

Wolverine
May 11, 2004, 04:00 am
man that was a good column. I still think that Casey had something going with iceman. oh well we will never know

Goon
May 11, 2004, 05:10 am
Very good article, It went really indepth to discuss Icemans way of thinking.. It also offered a good perspective on how Bobby feels about the rest of the X-Men.. I've always felt that out of all the founding members he was the one that got the short end of the stick..

Silverwolf
May 11, 2004, 07:45 am
Impressive character study by Jim. Insightful and not too assuming. Somebody buy the guy a drink.

I'm all for Bobby and Lorna getting together. I don't see how this can happen, since both are at the mercy of Chuck Austen, who seems intent on mutilating them beyond repair.

What I'm really afraid of is that Iceman might end up being written into a corner, prompting his execution. It happened with Colossus, and it could happen again.

Beware, Iceman fans, for he is in danger.

Paul Shinn
May 11, 2004, 08:22 am
Nice article, which shed some light on Bobby Drake. I'll admit, this character has never really had his time in the spotlight (and if anyone so much as mentions OZT, I'll scream!), but you've made me realise that he's had quite a bit going on in the background.

While not my favourite X-person, Iceman's always been someone I've enjoyed reading about, and after reading your article, I think I know why: he's pretty much who I'd be if I was an X-man.

Mightiest_mortal
May 11, 2004, 08:49 am
I really hope Bobby isnt gay.
I love the fact hes so unlucky in love, he cant keep a girlfriend, they all dump him for other men or end up being crazy.... and the ONE person that really likes him above anyone else and really wants to be with him is the person that he really doesnt want.
sweet sweet irony.
im a fan of Iceman. Cant wait to see more of him in adjectiveless X-Men.
heres to some luck for him with the ladies in the future.

Lord Sun
May 11, 2004, 10:22 am
When Bobby D got "aggressively creative" with his abilities (Uncanny 300) at Mikhail Rasputin's prompting, he reached the apogee of his powers. I think he can do even more, considering he has the most real control of the elements save for Storm. Like many mutants' Bobby's control of his powers is limited, to some extent, by his control of his emotions.

As for those emotions, if Scott had been less of a charismatic leader, and more of a communicator, I think Bobby would have turned out a lot differently. Scott tended to mask his own insecurities and press on, whereas if Bobby had known how tortured Cyclops was, he'd have had much less of a complex. his college days certainly helped him to get a handle on himself, to learn to live with Bobby Drake. But you have to remember that from day one, when Cyke rescued him from jail, Bobby has always been following Scott Summers. Scott was the big brother, and can you imagine having to keep up with a big brother whose apparent demeanour was so cool and forceful as good ol Scotty's?

This is the first time I've had it explained why anyone would think that Mr. Popular could be gay. I know Bobby has always had problems with women - I missed the Infectia edpisode, and the Cloud bit; during his time with the Defenders, I was still a big X-Men/Spriderman fan, so I didn't really follow Bobbo's adventures. I only caught up with him again later, when he linked up with X-Factor.

I always thought Opal was the best fit for Bobby, but his father was a terrible impediment, though not quite so terrible as the killers who were always on the couple's tail. I agree that Zelda should come back, so that she can get some closure from her relationship with Bobbo.

Finally, it must be said that Bobby's status as the least odd of his peers might well have set him off as the oddest of his peers. Wanna hear a theory? Well, if you're still reading, you must, so here goes: the original X-Men were a group of freaks, with all sorts of convoluted back-stories, and Bobby stood out among them precisely because he was so disarmingly normal, sort of a precursor to Sam Guthrie insofar as being Mr. All America. Conversely, the second group, despite coming from very diverse backgrounds, was a little more of the norm than the first, and so Mr. Drake opted out. so, I agree that his early yearning to stand out was a driving force in this character's development, but I further argue that it's not enough today. Whereas Cyclops' psychoses are enough to drive him for a further 25 years, Bobby has to find something new. Coming back to the beginning, sort of, I think an exploration of the evolution of his powers and a settled relationship ought to be the starting points.

seth_raditz
May 11, 2004, 10:26 am
iceman has always been the x-man i've taken for granted. never thought too much about his character development, since someone else was always in the lime light.

but i totally agree that he's got more potential than most. i would love to read a more drake based arc in 'X-men'. and to see a kick off between alex and him.

question tho'. would havok's blasts be able to melt iceman?

atown
May 11, 2004, 10:41 am
Very good article. Iceman has been both my most and least favorite character depending on who's writing him. I really hope he's handled well amidst the whole reload thing. Gotta admit though, I'm frustrated that he's back to the popsicle look. Does anyone know if this is because his body was slowly turning into ice? Remember he showed Annie his chest and it was almost completely transformed.

If the powers that be decide that Bobby is gay, I hope he's handled better than Northstar was. I mean they just beat the crap out of that for a while. It was tiring.

Toga
May 11, 2004, 11:38 am
Latley the best i've seen of Bobby was in the AOA, he was calm and COOL (sorry had to), funny, he had control of his powers, he reminded me alot of 616 Beast. He still had problems of love, always geting advice from Gambit and he actually believed in the dream, which i don't think i've really seen latley. t' seems hes just there because he knows he's an original and wants to seem special to everyone else who are as he said in uncanny 416 "johhny come latelies".

xterminator
May 11, 2004, 12:40 pm
Great article!! Iceman has been my favorite character since the cartoon Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends. It's been so frustrating reading the comics over the years and Iceman being constantly pushed in the background. I'm really hoping that Austen does something good with him. *fingers crossed*

GuyX
May 11, 2004, 02:54 pm
Great article Jim...I think you hit right arounf the core of the character. I alwas knew I liked Iceman for some unexplainable reason...well, now its explained!

Oh and for the record...why should Bobby turn gay? I mean most arguments I've heard are pretty weak. He's been unlucky in love. LOTS of people are unlucky in love with women. I sure am. That doesn't mean the next logical choice should change your sexual prefrence. And it would be a weak reason to anyway (heh but I gotta agree I do like the irony that the one person that finally digs Bobby is someone he would never hook up with...ahhh twisted twisted love).

X-Dan
May 11, 2004, 03:15 pm
Originally posted by atown
I'm frustrated that he's back to the popsicle look. Does anyone know if this is because his body was slowly turning into ice? Remember he showed Annie his chest and it was almost completely transformed.

According to the 2004 X-Men Encyclopedia, ably written by Mr. Moreels, Iceman's secondary mutation has caused his body to be permanently transformed into solid ice. In other words, he's now stuck that way. Clearly this will not improve his social life.

I'm assuming the permanent ice thing happened sometime during the "Draco" arc, but I don't know. After four months of therapy, I've repressed all memory of the story.

mrhelm
May 11, 2004, 03:30 pm
Iceman truly is one of the greatest underutilized X-Men out there, and has been that for months. I'm personally a huge fan of the character, though the direction Austen's taken him isn't that great. Hopefully, he'll go back to regularly icing up though now that we're on to the costume thing again.

Personally, I think he's the X-Men who should get a spin-off series, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon.

netenyahoo
May 11, 2004, 04:01 pm
Excellent article! Iceman is my favorite comic character. I have always liked him and in some ways been able to symphathize with his life. He has great powers and a fun personality. I'm curious to see where Austen is taking him. Too many writers have messed him up over the years. I don't understand why Claremont doesn't like him. We need more stories about him that show who he is and what makes him tick. No stories with Northstar. I have never unstood why his sexuality always comes up when discussing Bobby. People need to leave it alone. It is obvious he likes women, but just is unlucky and that is an aspect of the character that many people like. It sets him apart from many of the other handsome X-guys.

xgene
May 11, 2004, 10:45 pm
Excellent character study there Jim.

UltimateIceman
May 12, 2004, 01:50 am
Yippy! What a great, in depth column about Iceman. Great read.

UltimateIceman

Radiate
May 12, 2004, 05:32 pm
JIm why aren't you writing the X-Men?:)

RADIATE!

darkelf63
May 14, 2004, 03:54 pm
Such a good column!!! WSomehow seeing this explained

"
The answer to the second question is easier: Iceman had a lot of built-up resentment toward Xavier and most of his teammates. He didn't feel like a real part of the X-Men anymore, and probably privately wondered if he'd been wasting his time with them.

helped me understand a little of what Chuck was trying to do with Iceman and his whinying/cracks against the otehr team-members. Yet as seemed his usual wityh Uncanny Austen's execution was not the same as his intention...

That aside, this column was really spot on and funny..

Erin
May 20, 2004, 09:54 am
Yeah! A column about my fave X-Man! Great job!

Originally posted by seth_raditz
iceman has always been the x-man i've taken for granted. never thought too much about his character development, since someone else was always in the lime light.

but i totally agree that he's got more potential than most. i would love to read a more drake based arc in 'X-men'. and to see a kick off between alex and him.

question tho'. would havok's blasts be able to melt iceman?

In Inferno Bobby tried to get X-Factor (his team at the team) seperated from the X-Men by icing up a wall. Havok pretty much mocks the attempt and melts the wall...only to start a flash flood that almost drowns them all. Such a great idea. :rolleyes: Even if Havok could melt Bobby it wouldn't do much. Bobby could just reform himself.

He's hoping the Bobster gets back to his lovable self! And able to turn back to flesh and blood!

Calybos
Nov 19, 2004, 01:44 pm
Was the psychological "block" on exploring his powers ever explained?

I recall that when Emma Frost had played around in his brain, she commented afterwards that "we both know the real reason you haven't been experimenting with your abilities." So what was it?

Erin
Nov 25, 2004, 07:47 pm
Was the psychological "block" on exploring his powers ever explained?

I recall that when Emma Frost had played around in his brain, she commented afterwards that "we both know the real reason you haven't been experimenting with your abilities." So what was it?

I always thought that it was because he had low self-esteem and never thought he was able to do more. But I don't think that the 'real' reason was ever explored after that. I know that Austen claimed in a earlier interview that something was 'missing' but the idea was never explored.

Matt Abraham
Nov 27, 2004, 10:16 am
I was always of the mind that Bobby just didn't want the responsibility, he on some level enjoyed playing the joker and was both too lazy and afraid to accept anything more. I don't think there's any shame in that, it makes him more human to me. Bobby's always been a great character, I just hope his poor treatment ends with Austin's run as I have not enjoyed most of this regression period in his life.

I don't think he's gay, if he were he'd actually land a girl and then have to come to grips and tell the truth and all that crap. He can't even land the girl in the first place, poor guy. But I also must say (again) the women of the Marvel U have really bad taste.

As for the backup story of Giant Size #1 or the issue after, I'm not sure how I feel about that. It painted Bobby as (at the time) being racist. I can't remember exactly what he said but it wasn't pretty, exciting reading but a bit upsetting.