THE COMIX-TEN #6: 10 MOST MEANINGFUL DEATHS IN COMICS

[Joel Phillips]

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/comix10_logo.gif" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">The 10 Most Meaningful Comic Book Deaths


Writers: Mike Gonzalez, Tom Toner, Dave Harris, Mitch Brown, and Jordan T. Maxwell.
Editor: Joel Phillips.


Traditionally death in comics has been pretty sorry. We’ve seen characters tossed into the hereafter for pure shock value, to boost body counts, even to commemorate anniversaries. Just as frequently we’ve seen characters wrenched back up from the land of the unliving when writers find themselves hard up for ideas. The end result is an atmosphere where the average reader has a hard time getting emotionally invested, and becomes almost impossible to move.

But there are exceptions. There have been comic book deaths that have been meaningful, to readers and characters, and because they are so rare they stand out even more for their brilliance. It is in the spirit of these grand and glorious journeys into the great beyond that five of ComiX-Fan’s finest set out to stare the reaper in the face and ask: what are the most meaningful deaths in comic book history?

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/avatar.php?userid=9575&dateline=1075969792" align=left border=0 alt="Mike Gonzalez">Newbie reviewer Mike Gonzalez was the first one to claw his way out of the grave:

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/Superman.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#10: Superman bites the big one, and lives to tell about it

Many make jokes about the Life, Death, and Rebirth of Superman. Some even go as far as to call it the pinnacle of the consumer obsessed, commercialized impermanent comic era of the 90's. Well, they're right. That's not to say that this isn't a good read. This, for many, is the first sample of death that many current comic followers read. Unfortunately, this is also the last memorable Superman arc to have occurred, as the last 10 or so years have not been nice to Clark Kent. Reading The Death of Superman is like watching Kennedy get shot or seeing towers crumble to the ground... you can remember exactly where you were when you first saw it and your exact feelings as a hero died. Remember when the JLA came to save the day, but couldn't do much to stop the impending Doomsday? Do you remember the funeral attended by every hero imaginable?

Ok, I just really wanted him to die... that's all.

Just kidding.

Ok, I lied; I was being serious.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/pyro.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#9: Pyro's flame dies out

Sometimes, it’s not the hero's death that everyone remembers. This was the first (and only) time that I actually felt pity for a literary character. The Legacy virus was like the AIDS virus, only more painful and MUCH more random. I still remember Pyro laying on the hospital bed as doctors refused to touch him due to his mutancy, much like the long held assumption that AIDS is a gay disease that's spread through the air. Just as in real life, though, the disease eventually manifested itself in all people and posed an even greater danger. As Pyro suffered and died, we knew that there was going to be no way to save him, and we understood that we would never see him again.

#8: Bye Bye, Barry Allen

‘Nuff said. I want him back in the DC universe. His time has obviously not passed yet, as the fans still greatly enjoy visits by "Uncle Barry" to help guide Wally along the path to being a true hero (he's getting close). Jay Garrick may be holding on to that mentor role at the moment, and a new Zoom may have shown up to signal a new generation for the Flash, but I guarantee that there is still an important role in the DC Universe for a Silver Age speedster named Barry.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/colossus_plunge.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#7: A steel grave (Colossus)

For the life of me, I will never understand why Scott Lobdell killed off Colossus. For years before, Piotr was subject to the most awful characterization in comics. From doing the most improbable things, such as joining the Acolytes, to EVER quitting painting, Colossus was abused throughout much of the 90's. Maybe the Legacy-induced death was an attempt to restore some sense of honor in the frequently abused character... or more likely, maybe it was just to try and push some more issues in an increasingly sagging readership? Either way, the loss of Colossus is still lamented and this space exists to honor him and bid his return some day.

#6: Captain Marvel bites the bullet

Whoa, how do you let a character die from cancer?! That's not heroic! That's not even honorable, you might say. It still amazes me that Marvel let a character named after their company die. If you have never experienced cancer, in some way, then I strongly recommend looking at this story to understand that no one is immune. When you're seemingly invincible, you can still have your own body working against you.

#5: Tribute the First (Phoenix)

As Jean Grey stands at her own grave after "returning" to life, she laments to a passing woman that her choices in life appear to be made for her. With Rachel Summers as her future daughter, she feels like she has no control whether or not she gets married and has a child. This old woman she talks to reveals herself as a Jewish concentration camp survivor. She tells the story of how it appeared there were no choices in those barbed fences, yet she never lost faith that your path is never decided for you. While starving to death, she lets the guards use her body to let her live just a few more days. That, more than anything else, was a choice she made to ensure her survival, rather than lying there and accepting fate. As the woman walks away, commenting that she’ll soon join her late husband in the grave, Jean finds her spirit again and goes on as a more confident woman. As long as you remember that you always have choices, you'll always be able to find the door to happiness and fulfillment.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/wolverine.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#4: Wolverine: The REAL End

Anyone wanna really kill off Wolverine and make it permanent? Please?

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/maus.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#3: A game of cat and Maus

If you haven't read it, you're missing out. If you have read it, you refuse to consider it a comic or graphic novel, because it's so much better that it puts every other illustrated material to absolute shame. This is the world of Maus- where the cats are the Nazis and the mice are the Jews. The story extends so much past that, though. This is an uncensored look at the Spiegelmans, one of which was forced to live through the concentration camps in Germany and see so many of his family and friends die. What makes this story so much different than the other things in this list is that the people in this novel WERE ACTUALLY KILLED. Everything that you read here is an example of the real life animalistic brutality that occurred in Germany in the late 30's and early 40's. We're a better society for having this story. Show it to your parents and grandparents.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/archangel.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#2: Angels lose their wings

If I could show a new reader any Marvel story to bring then into the X-Universe, Mutant Massacre would rank at the top of the list. Not only was it astonishingly brutal for its day, it showed that even heroes lose their dreams. When Archangel lost his wings, and flew up in a plane that self-destructed, what went on in your mind? This is the singular arc that made me love Angel. From his "death" to his rebirth and years of depression, Angel evolved from a spoiled rich white boy to a spoiled rich blue boy... but not without experiencing heavy personal loss that made him realize how happy being a mutant made him.

#1: To kill a Robin

To me, A Death in the Family easily ranks as my favorite story at all time. It exemplifies the brutality that certain fanatical readers have. For the first time ever, we saw rabid fans calling in to demand the death of a petulant child. A CHILD. Not only that, but this child was a hero, even through his foibles. When Jason Todd's own mother sold him out to the Joker, did your heart not break? As the Joker beat him near to death, and left him to die in an abandoned warehouse, did you cheer, knowing it might have been you that cast the vote to end his life? Brutal. A new Robin has come along since then, but I will always await the return of Jason Todd, a good soldier.

Rebuttals:
Tom: You’ve got a fine list there. I give you props for putting Wolverine on the list, even though we all know it’s never going to happen. But Pyro? He’s on your list while say, Uncle Ben isn’t? For shame Mike, for shame.
Dave: Aw, Mike, you showed so much promise. I gotta give you credit, though, for creating such a concentrated nugget of good picks around which you could hide the rest of 'em. And somehow you've used instances of death to prove things don't change... I'm... impressed?
Mitch: Superman? How is a shallow, sales-boosting publicity stunt MEANINGFUL? I can't believe I forgot about Mar-Vell! ... You win some points back. Killing off Wolverine permanently though? About as much chance as the Big Blue really biting the Big One.
Jordan: Give me a second... I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that you want Wolverine dead, yet want to bring back Jason Todd... okay... now I'm suppressing laughter... aaahhhh, much better. Really, I don't see how any of these can qualify as "top" comic book deaths. Okay, yes, they were deaths (well, most of them anyway since Superman and Angel didn't actually die... and your number 5 isn't actually a death at all) and yes, they were featured in comic books. But "top" deaths? I didn't see anything noteworthy except for Maus which is just flat out brilliant. And while you included Colossus, you did so in a way to make it seem as though he were in your "bottom" ten deaths of comics. Which would make me question the validity of your other choices... if I weren't doing so already.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/avatar.php?userid=3&dateline=1074932352" align=left border=0 alt="Tom Toner">Next up was the death defying Tom “2TUM” Toner:

Death. Such a simple word but so much to it. It happens in real life all around us. To quote a wise man, "in life you will go through two things that you wont be able to avoid. Paying taxes and dying." So it only takes common sense to see that death translates onto the pages of a comic book. This is my list of the 10 most meaningful deaths.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/Roy Fokker.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#10: Houston, We Have a Problem (Roy Fokker)

There isn't a better pilot then Roy Fokker of Robotech fame. With nothing to turn back to, Roy became a fighter pilot for life. He quickly moved through the ranks before one day leading the famed Skull Squadron. His exhaled his final breath in the company of his love, Claudia. As great a fighter as he was, a true romantic he was, even in death.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/Gwen Stacy.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#9: Forget MJ, It’s All About Gwen (Stacy)

Screw Mary Jane, Gwen Stacy was the true love of Peter Parker’s life. Some still wonder if he would have ended up with Gwen had she not died. Her death scene in Amazing Spiderman #121 was a scene for the ages. Who really killed Gwen? Was it the Green Goblin for throwing her off of the bridge? Or was it actually Peter himself? She died of a snapped neck, which was from Peter trying to save her. It was really a lose/lose situation: watch as she plummeted to her death; or try to save her, which resulted in her death. Peter would live with the grief of her death for his entire life. No true fan should be without the Death of Gwen Stacy TPB.

#8: It’s a Bird, It’s a Plane It’s…(Superman)

When Doomsday hit the scene, he plowed his way right through the JLA and it seemed like there was nothing that would stop him. But one man stood in his path of destruction: the Man of Steel himself, Superman. This is was one of the biggest events to rock the comic world. Superman never gave up and kept fighting on until both he and Doomsday were indisposed. Superman die? No, say it isn't so. This is the Man of Steel, nothing can kill him. The death lived up to its expectations. The only thing that tainted the death was how they brought him back. *shudder*

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/optimus.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#7: Autobots, Roll Out…the Grave (Optimus Prime)

When you talk about the greatest Autobot to have "lived", you can't deny that Optimus was the greatest. As a child he was by far my favorite character, and I know that many shared my thoughts. So as a child, I cried when I saw Optimus bite the dust, be it in the Movie against Megatron, or in the comics against Unicron.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/jean_shuttle.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#6: The First Woman of X (Jean Grey)

Everyone always goes for the Phoenix's sacrifice in X-Men #137. But ask anyone you know, and they'll tell you I'm not like everyone else, well that among other things but we won't go there tonight. She died so that everyone else may live on, including her love Scott Summers. Were it not for the sacrifice of Jean in X-Men #100 to pilot the ship back to Earth, then the Phoenix event wouldn't have come to happen.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/Ben Reilly.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#5: Tonight We Mourn a Clone (Ben Reilly)

Looking among the crowd, I see a lot of naysayers. At least look at it this way: his death paved the way for the end of the Clone Saga. Good enough for you? Ben was such a great and original character. Ben accepted his life as a clone and never let it bother him… unlike Peter, who ran out screaming and crying when he found out he was a clone. In his final act in life, he saved Peter by getting in the way of the goblin glider. In the end he decomposed, proving once and for all who the clone was and who was the original Peter Parker.

#4: The Kennedys of Comics (The Rasputins)

We're talking about the Kennedys of the comic world. No family sees more death then the Rasputins: not the Summers, not the Guthries, no one but the Rasputins. Father Nikolai, Mother Alexandra, and their 3 children, daughter Illyana and sons Mikhail and Piotr. Mikhail vanished during his cosmonaut days. Some time later, it turns out he didn't die from his space days but on his return he died. Then of course there was his sacrifice in The Twelve storyline... but we won't get into that one. Illyana perished from the Legacy Virus. Piotr would go on to blame himself for not being able to save her… so who better then him to go out and take the fall for the Virus' cure?

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/Robin.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#3: Bye Bye Birdie (Robin)

Jason Todd’s death at the hands of the Joker was one of the hardest stories to read. It's the kind of story that will bring a tear to your eye. The ramifications of the death are still being talked about in today's comics, as Batman (and at times Nightwing as well) keep a watchful eye on the new Robin, Tim Drake.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/Captain Marvel.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#2: The Worst Way to Go (Captain Marvel)

Captain Marvel was a man among men in the Marvel Universe… better yet he was an alien among aliens in the Marvel Universe. He was a hero who fought for the same rights that Captain America, Thor, Cyclops, etc. fought for. He died not by an arch-villain nor by a heroic sacrifice, but by an incurable cancer. The Death of Captain Marvel is one of the great stories to sit on my bookcase at home. Have you ever been around a cancer victim? Being around them, the feeling of not being able to do anything to help them washes completely over you. Now think about all of the heroes who had to watch one of their own go without being able to do anything for him. The big moment was when Thanos, of all people, came to wish him off. I kid you not when I say I had a tear in my eyes the first time I saw that.

#1: The Uncle We Wished We Knew (Uncle Ben)

Name me a person who died and stayed dead. Odds are, Uncle Ben is on your list. Uncle Ben is the sole person who can take claim for having Peter Parker turn into the crime fighter Spider-Man. We all know the story: the burglar who Peter, then a wrestler, let slip by ended up killing Uncle Ben. The shock caused Peter to exact revenge and lead the way to becoming the hero that we know and love.

Rebuttals:
Mike: Aww come on, Uncle Ben? This isn't Minute Rice. Tom is still one bad mother fokker, even if he stole my Robin pick.
Dave: Wow, Tom, you always come through with the comedy! Man, that humor's gold. And I'm not doing the gag where I shockedly find out you're serious, either -- I just won't hear it. Wow, hilarious! Boris and Natasha Rasputin!? Ha! The stitches... they're popping!
Mitch: Uhh dude... Roy Fokker and Optimus? COMIC BOOK deaths... not TV/movie deaths (adaptations don't count… or do they?). Superman. Superman... AGAIN! See Rebuttal #1. Nice duo of Uncle Ben and the Waynes though... but the Rasputins? Just what were Piotr's parents' names anyway?
Jordan: Superman and Jason Todd... again. Are we gluttons for marketing stunts around here or what? Seriously though, while I agree with a lot of your picks I find your explanations of them lacking. Why was Fokker's (snicker) death so meaningful? You tell us he was a great character and that he died... and? And your explanation for Gwen had its moments but why the Mary Jane hate? And why answer your own seemingly rhetorical question about what really killed her? With a few scattered duds, you've got some real live bullets in this list... unfortunately, you wind up shooting your foot with all of them. (Heehee...sorry, just got an image of Tom in a Barney Fife costume) Oh, and as for Ben Reilly... you know all that laughter I was suppressing with Mike? All yours buddy. :rofl:

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/avatar.php?userid=683&dateline=1059607134" align=left border=0 alt="Dave Harris">Next up for autopsy was the late great Dave Harris:

Honorable Mention #1: Krypton
Few things have blown up quite as spectacularly as the Big Green.

Honorable Mention #2: The Spider
I cry for him every night. Go with God, you scientifically ambiguous little scamp.

Moving on.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/extant.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#10: A Hero's Fall (Extant)

Quite a few of you have no idea who the guy is. I didn’t pay quite enough attention myself, and so couldn’t explain it to you much better, don’t worry. But even so, there’s a palpable reason Extant is on this list: he died a villain’s death, but he died at the hands of a hero. Out for revenge, Atom Smasher of the JSA killed Extant. This hero murdered a man. And that’s the statement I want you to remember.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/illyana.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#9: A Snowflake's Chance (Illyana Rasputin)

She was still a child. Well, she was still a child… again. But I decide the point for my part of the column, and that isn’t it. Illyana, loved inside and outside of the book, wasted away and died. She survived hell, and I mean that as literally as I can without getting metaphysical and psychological. She was a superhero, and look what brought her down. She was a superhero, and a daughter, and a sister, and a friend, a little girl. And even when he tried to right things years later, when Colossus sacrificed himself to try and fix things, she was still his little snowflake.

Besides, everyone else already said Captain Marvel, and I needed the human interest.

#8: More Things in Heaven and on Earth (The Universe)

At the end of it all, she’ll put the chairs up on the tables and turn off the lights; Death of the Endless will close it all when the last living being in the universe has died. A disturbingly popular character from a freakishly talented writer, Vertigo’s Death has always been that impossible combination of lovable and feared. And beyond that, she is the final player in one of the most quietly powerful stories of the end of the world.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/barry_allen.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#7: It's All Right to Crisis (Barry Allen and Supergirl)

The Crisis may have repaired…well, it may have tried to repair…everything, I suppose. But I can’t imagine any part of Crisis affecting the reader more than the single deaths. Universes were destroyed, erased, but none of them mattered as much as the murder of Supergirl and the sacrifice of Barry Allen, the Flash. Two heroes given, truly, hero’s deaths.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/coastcity.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#6: In Darkest Night (Hal Jordan, Coast City, the Corps)

If consequences enter into any part of the process, then there is one event we cannot ignore: the massacre of Coast City, the madness of Hal Jordan, and his slaughtering of the Green Lanterns. When Hal, the quintessential hero, saw his city decimated, it broke him. To save his people, he set out to change the universe, butchering friends and heroes throughout the universe. By the time Hal’s saga finally came to an end, the universe and the company had been irrevocably changed. And alongside the death of friend Barry Allen, this marked a supreme change for everything.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/jeansuicide.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#5: No Spark Among These Ashes (Phoenix)

This one’s the one you’re all thinking of…you’ve all seen the cover and parodies of it a million times. Not Jean Grey in the shuttle, but Phoenix on the Moon. Jean’s death was still just another adventure back then, and back then the X-Men tended not to die very often. Not until planets were destroyed and the universe was in danger, not until the moon, did any of it really matter. That’s what gave us scope, and weight, and consequence. That’s the death that counted.

#4: A Stranger in the Night (Ben Parker)

It’s ironic, really, how little we knew Uncle Ben. How many of us really grew emotionally attached to his character before he was killed? And yet, how many would know, without a doubt, that he belonged on this list. When Bendis began Ultimate Spider-Man, what event did he know had to be included? Spider-Man’s defining moment and the beginning of the rest of Peter Parker’s life will always be Uncle Ben’s death; killed in the night, in his home, by a burglar and coincidence. The start of Spider-Man has always been such a…human…beginning.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/batgirl.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#3: A Madman at the Door (Batgirl/Barbara Gordon)

The current Batgirl, obviously, is still alive. Barbara Gordon, too, is still alive, serving the world as Oracle. But that hardly matters. Joker put a bullet in Barbara Gordon’s spine, crippling her, all in a twisted attempt to strike out at then-Commissioner Jim Gordon. What never crossed his mind was that he had also, finally, struck at a Bat. In a bizarre twist of irony, appropriate for the Joker and yet entirely unknown to him, Batgirl had been crippled. One of the cruelest jokes. The Killing Joke.

#2: Star-Crossed Souls (Gwen Stacy)

The death of Uncle Ben might have set Peter Parker onto his path, but it would have been such a drastically different path… Uncle Ben’s death started it all, but Gwen Stacy’s death is what made him into the man he is today. And while Ben’s death showed him why he had to be a hero, Gwen’s death was exactly the opposite: the pain being a hero could bring him. It’s by no means a coincidence that two of these deaths belong to Peter Parker. He is a hero because of tragedy and in the face of tragedy, with the strength to face it all when so many would have fallen.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/waynes.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#1: Crime Alley's Child (Thomas and Martha Wayne)

It began with Zorro and pearls. Whatever details have threatened to surface in Batman/Superman, Thomas and Martha Wayne were, in fact, murdered by a faceless gunman; otherwise, it just isn’t Batman’s story. He has always been the dark knight, fueled by the tragedy of a needless murder to prevent anything like it from happening ever again. Not in his city. He has always and will always do what he can to make his city, if not perfect, livable, and it all began with Zorro and pearls.

Rebuttals:
Mike: Batman's parents (Oh no, I've revealed his identity!)? Jeez man, what is up with you guys and including inconsequential characters that act as nothing more than a plot basis for a hero becoming what he is? Christ of a cracker, it's not like you'll ever see me have "Dead body on the left on panel 3" as one of my choices.
Tom: Loved your list but… it just didn’t seem right. I mean so many off your list didn’t even die. Other picks went to the other extreme and included tons of deaths like Coast City and the Corps.
Mitch: Hard for me as I'm not a big DC Universe buff, but I can see the deaths of Kara and Barry. Thomas and Martha - I hear you. But I'd like to go on record as saying right now - I never liked Gwen. :)
Jordan: Well now... you know I'm just going to love you for mentioning my beloved Death, don't you? Though how you could include her and not have her as your number one "death" is somewhat questionable... I'll let it slide because with a few exceptions, I think your list is pretty damn solid. You're right, I've never read or heard of Extant and I think as far as "heroes murdering villains" goes, there are other choices that might trump it but I can't say. And while I think Barbara Gordon's shooting was an incredibly well executed scene done by two masters (Moore and Bolland), I fail to see it qualifying as a death. Other than that, solid. Although, for the record, I always preferred the portrayal of Barry Allen's death shown in Secret Origins. Gives the sacrifice a whole other level of poignancy.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/avatar.php?userid=8614&dateline=1078278599" align=left border=0 alt="Mitch Brown">After digging a little deeper, we unearthed Mitch Brown:

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/krypton.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#10: The Big Bang (The Death of Planet Krypton)

Ok, so technically this is a LOT of meaningful deaths. But come on, if the Kryptonians hadn’t all been going to bite the big one, we probably wouldn’t even have the comic industry we know and love today. It’s unfortunate that an entire civilization had to die just so we could get to read about the Big Blue, but hey, it’s a small price to pay for the continuing Adventures of Superman.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/genosha.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#9: Genocide ain’t all bad… (Genosha)

Another case of a multitude of tragic deaths holding a great impact. While after a several year hiatus I had finally returned to reading the X-Men around the time of The Hunt for Xavier, it wasn’t until E Is For Extinction that I started feeling truly excited about the X-Men again. Like many of the mainstays of the X-Men canon, over the years Genosha had become a stale concept that’s overuse had eroded the strength of the mutant slave nation concept. By destroying it, Grant Morrison was paradoxically able to breathe new life into the old chestnut, making it a rallying point for booting the X-Franchise into the 21st century. For me, the destruction of the troubled island nation of Genosha symbolized a much-needed watershed in X-continuity and, more importantly, works as a truly horrific and tragic narrative moment in the saga of Charlie’s mutants.

#8: Martyr or Deathwish? (Colossus)

Uncanny X-Men #390 was one of the best and most unexpected issues of the pre-Casey era. At that point, Internet spoilers still weren’t quite such a common occurrence, and I was truly shocked by writer Scott Lobdell’s decision to kill off everyone’s favorite Russian mutant, Piotr Rasputin. To be honest, Colossus has never been one of my favorite characters: I liked him as a supporting X-Man, but no amount of killing his family or turning him to the Acolytes could ever change that. In fact, further from the truth, they transformed him in my mind from a boring, but extremely noble character into, well, a whining, moody and untrustworthy prima donna. But when Peter sacrificed himself to cure the Legacy Virus (which, like Genosha, had frankly lost its interest for me) even I had to shed a tear. One of Lobdell’s greatest comics moments and Colossus’ greatest and most noble hour. I didn’t like you, but strangely, I do miss you Petey.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/edith.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#7: Eyes Wide Open (Lady Edith Manning)

One of only a handful of comic moments that has been able to bring a tear to my eye, the story of Lady Edith’s final days is one of the many highlights from The Invisibles Volume 3. Unlike all of the entries on this list, Edith’s passing is the only one to come through natural causes. No violence, no guns, no fatal cures for a fictional AIDS-like virus. Just an elderly lady who has lived a marvelously full, rich and adventurous life welcoming death’s embrace on her 100th birthday. Those who have read The Invisibles in its entirety will understand that nothing truly dies in the series, or rather that everything dies at once, but that doesn’t make her passing any less sorrowful.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/rorschach.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#6: Would anyone mourn a psycho? (Rorschach)

Now HE is what I call a vigilante. The disturbed (and disturbing) Rorschach of Watchmen fame is one of the most memorable of Alan Moore & Dave Gibbon’s creations. His final end at the hands of his former ally, Dr. Manhattan, comes across in Watchmen like the death of the ages: old Black or White superhero morality play. Re-reading Watchmen, the clues are there from the beginning: no matter the outcome, how could a character like Rorschach survive the tale itself? The inevitability of Rorschach’s demise and the irony that his death is not delivered by the villainous and communist scum he has spent his life hunting, but rather through another character who is ostensibly a hero as well, makes this a both a touching and relieving moment in the story of the Watchmen.

#5: Who needs Survivor? (Robin II)

You know, I’ve always thought that comic books were one of the greatest innovative forces in popular culture, and the death of Jason Todd just goes to prove how forward thinking this industry can be. The introduction of Robin II divided Batman fans everywhere, with a great majority of readership hating Dick Grayson’s successor. In an at-the-time unprecedented move, DC left Jason Todd’s fate in the hands of the readers, setting up a 1-900 number for fans to call to cast their votes for the outcome of Death In The Family. Like so many victims of Survivor and …Idol, comic fandom let the guillotine of democracy fly and kissed the former thief goodnight. Unlike the aforementioned Survivor rejects, the death of Jason Todd continues to reverberate throughout the DC Universe and will for years to come.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/v.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#4: In order to create, one must destroy. (V)

Alas poor V. Just like Alan Moore’s other doomed hero on this list, Rorschach, the story of V truly could not have ended any other way. V, his freedom and his very sense of self destroyed by a totalitarian state, launches a one-man anarchist war upon the forces of order that eventually leads to his destruction. Fuelled by vengeance and pain, V seeks to pave the way for a new world of peace and liberty, but ultimately could not escape from his own nightmare. Once V’s goals are achieved, the seemingly invulnerable revolutionary’s armor cracks and in his most vulnerable moment, he is struck down… exactly as he had planned it, leaving the young Evey, who has not yet lost enough to silence her dreams, to carry on his work. Sheer Moore brilliance.

#3: Did the Phoenix really need to rise? (The Supposed Death of Phoenix)

Its such a shame that one of Marvel Comics’ greatest moments would be overturned years later by editorial: Claremont’s Dark Phoenix Saga, where we follow Jean Grey’s loss of control over her immense powers as she spirals into the depths of insanity. Xavier’s greatest nightmare is played out through the collapse of Jean’s personality and the rise of the Dark Phoenix, an uncontrollable, extremely powerful and utterly insane mutant who he cannot help. Jean’s heartbreaking sacrifice on the moon to stop her out of control powers stands as one of the greatest milestones in comics. Unfortunately, most of the original meaning of this comic book death has been negated by the later resurrection of Jean, and the convoluted retconning that occurred after to make her “fit” again.

#2: Ever dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight? (Martha & Thomas Wayne)

Okay, so that line was never spoken in the comics, but I watched the Tim Burton Batman flick only a few days ago, so that line is kind of fresh in my memory. Poor Martha and Thomas, gunned down mercilessly in front of their only son Bruce. If only they could now see their boy: a grown adult who runs around alleyways and rooftops in black spandex, declaring himself the Batman and spawning countless other revenge-driven vigilantes for the next 60 or so years. So many comic book characters are driven by the deaths of those close to them, but none so powerfully as one little boy who saw what none of us should have to see.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/Uncle Ben.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#1: With Great Characters Comes Great Tragedy (Uncle Ben)

I really had difficultly choosing between Uncle Ben and the Waynes for the #1 slot. In the end though, it’s one little catchphrase that tips things in Ben Parker’s favor. Just six words, coined by Stan Lee in the ‘60s and spoken by the poor deceased Uncle Ben is enough to push this one into top spot. Uncle Ben is so similar to my own father that it’s hard not to get a little choked up about his passing. Sure, the spider gave Peter Parker his powers, but it was Ben’s example and his tragic death that turned him into the true hero that Spider-Man is today. Fathers are always wiser than sons give them credit for, and it’s tragic that Ben had to die for Peter to truly hear his sage words: With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility.

Rebuttals:
Mike: Ah yes, Mr. and Mrs. Wayne and Uncle Ben. Where have I see this before? Oh wait, just 2 seconds ago.
Tom: Mitch, the only problem I have of your list is having Genosha and Krypton. But I applaud your mentioning of non-mainstream DC titles like Watchmen, V for Vendetta, and the Invisibles.
Dave: Hmm. Well, Mitch, I guess I can't rip into for the ones you, you know, stole from me. But that's all that's saving you, ya hear! That and most of your other choices being, ya know, good ones... damn you! Aw, well, I at least got a chuckle out of your getting Spidey's mantra wrong. Nine words (http://users.chartertn.net/bilbo/spiderman.htm), buckaroo. :D
Jordan: Krypton and Genosha? Why not go for the hat trick and include Alderaan while you're at it? ;) All kidding aside... mainly because I'm out of Jason Todd jokes... I really dig your list. And not just because we share similar tastes in comic books, but because... um... hmm... okay, it's probably because we share similar tastes in comic books. Edith's death was incredibly moving (check out the missing dialogue at Grant Morrison's website (http://www.grant-morrison.com/invisibles3.6.htm)) and Rorschach's demise is right up there with the most well executed (no pun intended) deaths on a dramatic level I've ever seen. Also, since V for Vendetta is one of my favorite comic books of all time, I think I'm actually going to have to end up voting for your list instead of my own.

What's that?

We can vote for more than one list? Score!

::high fives Dave and Mitch::

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/avatar.php?userid=1126&dateline=1075825746" align=left border=0 alt="Jordan T. Maxwell">Finally, because we needed a list filled with people from stories you’ve never read, we come to Jordan T. Maxwell:

Death is probably one of the most powerful tools in a storyteller's arsenal. It can show the heroism of sacrifice, the fleeting nature of our own mortality, reflect the universal themes of loss, mourning and regret. Stimulated on such a primal level, we get to see characters at their emotional highest and lowest... which is why it's sad that death is so often little more than a joke in comic books. The old maxim of "only Bucky stays dead" isn't entirely true, but it does reflect the jaded attitude of fandom. We take for granted that many of these characters will return and so their swan songs and tragic falls sometimes go with little more than a shrug. Still, sometimes we get to see it done right, and that is an awesome experience. Here's just a handful of my favorites.

#10: The Cure (Colossus)

I know this is a sensitive topic for some. I know a lot of people felt like after years of being ignored and misused, Colossus was just shuffled off the board by shuffling off his mortal coil. And as a huge Colossus fan, I'm inclined to agree if not for one thing... this is a very moving story and a beautiful ending for the character. Having lost his entire family to violence, disease and madness... his innocence and idealism betrayed to the point where he in turn betrayed both... unable to truly find a place where he belonged anymore, even in the team and home he had been a part of for years. Still he struggled on under the whips and scorns of life and a thousand other heartaches (and no, I'm NOT trying to be subtle with these Hamlet references. They're entirely relevant). Enter into this internal struggle a cure for the disease that robbed his little sister Illyana from him... at the cost of one life. The question was given to him, to be or not to be, and just as for the Dane who originally asked it the answer was the same: the readiness is all. Piotr didn't give up on life, but instead gave it up as a gift to the rest of the world.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/alamo.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#9: The Alamo (Jesse Custer & Proinsias Cassidy)

Two former best friends. A showdown just before sunrise. The knowledge that one won't walk away. It's the stuff of great drama. Now throw in the fact that one's a cosmically empowered preacher with John Wayne for a guardian angel and the other was a century-old, hard-drinking Irish vampire and you know you're in for some good times. Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon's masterful Preacher reached its zenith in this final story with a physical and emotional beat down between Jesse Custer and his friend Cassidy. Cassidy had betrayed Jesse's trust and stolen his girl, Tulip. As the man Jesse trusted most in the world, he couldn't let that stand. Despite his superior strength, Cassidy has his ass handed to him by Jesse and is forced to confront the truth about his own weakness as a human being... just before the sun rises and turns him into a pile of ash and Jesse's enemies put a bullet through his brain. Both lie dead, but Cassidy got the last laugh as it's revealed he made a deal with God to resurrect both he and Jesse to make up for his past mistakes. Jesse and Tulip ride off into the sunset... as Cassidy, human again and with a second chance at life, smiles wistfully at a picture of the three friends in happier times and drives off into his new life.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/magneto.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#8: Fallout! (Magneto)

It was the early ‘90s and I had just discovered the X-Men a short while before they launched the second series, helmed by the dream team of Chris Claremont and Jim Lee. So at this point I wasn't the jaded and cynical reader I've since become. Stories meant something. They had consequences. If someone died, surely that meant they were dead. So when I read the third issue of the new series, which ended with Magneto nobly facing his own demise and eulogizing himself to his old friend and nemesis Charles Xavier, wishing his old friend well but fearing that the hatred and fear that had haunted him all his life would break Xavier's heart, it was a big deal and a story so moving that I actually cried as I closed the issue and drew a memorial to Magneto that proudly hung in my room. Of course, a year later Magneto was back and no one was able to tell a capable story with the character again until recently in Grant Morrison's Planet X (featuring yet another death for the character). So while the impact of the story has since been somewhat cheapened, the quality still stands up. The true Magneto died that day on Asteroid M... if not in body, then definitely in spirit.

#7: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

Heartbreak. For the death of Gwen Stacy, only one word could possibly do proper justice. For years, Peter Parker had been handed raw deal after raw deal. But then there was Gwen: a beauty with brains and humor and a smile that could stop traffic. Who wouldn't be smitten? And the best part? She felt the same. Of course, the usual complications of a double life arose... keeping secrets, missing dates, his alter ego being blamed for her father's death. And finally, fatefully, his greatest nemesis, the Green Goblin, using her to bait Spider-Man into a final confrontation atop the Brooklyn Bridge. In the chaos of their battle, an unconscious Gwen was knocked over the side. The next few pages would rend the heart out of any man. Peter attempting to save her with a line of webbing. The "SNAP" in mid-air as her neck rocked back. Peter's usual bravado at his rescue replaced by desperation, denial and despair. You find yourself wanting her to wake up in his arms, even after having read it numerous times, just this once, please don't let it be. Not Gwen. Gerry Conway and Gil Kane pull you so completely into the overwhelming reaction of Peter himself. Pure and raw... heartbreak.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/bobby_murray.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#6: Best Man Fall (Bobby Murray)

Occasionally in comic books, a story comes out that makes you totally reevaluate the title and what the author is saying. For Grant Morrison's masterpiece The Invisibles, that issue was #12, Best Man Fall. It examines the life of Bobby Murray, traced in scattered non-linear glimpses... playing war games with his friends, the courtship of his wife, the birth of their mentally handicapped son, his military career, his abuse of his wife, his life falling apart. Until he takes a job at Harmony House, a boarding school for wayward boys... which readers of the series already recognize as a center for forced conformity. Cycles emerge, patterns are recognized and in a single moment we see the book's first adventure from another perspective: Bobby Murray, a guard at Harmony House who had known fear, love, joy, bitterness... had lived and lost, and was now facing the guns of our hero King Mob. Bobby dies, unremarkably, one of several casualties in King Mob's killing spree to free Dane McGowan from Harmony House. But we see his life. And if each life is significant, than each death is as well. So if our "heroes" can kill so indiscriminately, then which side are we really rooting for? Remember... it's all just a game. And Bobby had his turn...

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/jenny_sparks.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#5: Outer Dark (Jenny Sparks)

She was a silly little British girl coming up on her 100th birthday. She swore, drank and chain-smoked. She was a living force of electricity who stopped aging in her 20s. She was the spirit of the 20th century. Jenny Sparks. I have to admit to having a slight crush on Ms. Sparks, which is why this story and its final issue will always hold such a special place for me. Jenny and the rest of the Authority have to take on a gigantic turd that is essentially the closest thing this planet has ever seen to God... only he didn't create the Earth for us to enjoy and is looking to wipe out the infection currently scampering along the face of his world: humanity. And time was running out. Racing both against the immediate threat of God and her own mortality as the spirit of a dying age, in her last moments Jenny finds herself staring at the enormous brain of God... and proceeds to push every erg of her electrical might to make a giant Ted Bundy out of the supposed Almighty. Collapsing, she makes the team promise to make the world a better place as she passes on... and a newborn child takes its first breath in Singapore on the first day of the 21st century.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/headless.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#4: Half Mat, One Mat, A Fistful of Rice (Headless Sakon)

I could probably fill up five different top ten Best Comic Book Deaths with moments from Lone Wolf and Cub. As it stands, in the interest of keeping this list diversified, I have decided on my favorite two. This is the first and one of my favorite stories in the whole series, the tale of "Headless Sakon," a samurai who has grown tired of his skills only being good for killing others. And so he uses them as a street entertainer and beggar, eking out a living and content with his life. Until the legendary Ogami Itto and son Daigoro cross his path. The two samurai exchange wisdom over sake and Sakon attempts to draw Itto off the path of the assassin, claiming that he will bar his way if necessary if he does not. On a windswept field, they lock eyes, two master swordsmen... and in those eyes a series of bloody imagined duels plays out. They recognize each other as equals and prepare to strike for real. Sakon has victory in his grasp but Itto throws his sword on the first stroke, catching Sakon off guard and impaling him. In his dying wish, he urges Itto once more... if not for his own sake then for that of his son... to leave his path. Itto honors his fallen brother, but continues on, shedding a tear for the first time and wondering how long until his path is truly ended...

#3: The Fate of the Phoenix

Even after all these years, The Dark Phoenix Saga still holds up as one of the finest superhero stories ever told, and much of it has to do with the Wagnerian space operatics of the final chapter. Jean Grey had given her life to save her friends in the X-Men... but in her final moments, her mind reached out to a cosmic force of passion, the Phoenix. Giving Jean a new form and consciousness as an avatar of the Phoenix, the young mutant now had access to untold levels of cosmic power... levels that at her age she could barely harness or control. Still, she remained with the X-Men. But soon, insidious forces began work to seduce her, unaware of the great power they were meddling with. By providing stimulation through the worst aspects of Jean's human emotions, Dark Phoenix was born. She nearly killed her friends and family and laid waste to an entire alien civilization before she was contained by her mentor Professor Xavier. But too late as the Shi'ar Empire (led by Xavier's beloved, Lilandra) demanded the life of Jean Grey. True friends, the X-Men fought for Jean against the elite soldiers of the Imperial Guard... and lost. Fearing another loss of control and seeing the harm she had brought on her friends, Jean saw no way out but to destroy herself, pausing only to say one last farewell to her true love, Cyclops. A tale that combined the most cosmic stakes with the most personal and primal of emotions... it's rarely been done better than this, folks.

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/nameless_buddha.jpg" align=right border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">#2: The Gateless Barrier (nameless Buddha)

There's an old Buddhist saying... "If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha." What if you were an assassin hired to kill a living Buddha? Could you do it? This is the problem facing Ogami Itto in this tale from the second volume of Lone Wolf and Cub. Itto enters a temple to kill the Buddha meditating before him... and finds that he cannot swing his blade. As the Buddha explains, it is because he has become one with Mu, with nothingness. Itto projects his sakki, or blood lust, outward but it finds nothing to connect with. The only way for Itto to kill him is for Itto himself to become one with Mu, to perfect himself through meifumado (Itto's road to damnation, the path of the assassin) and become a gateless barrier through which there is no way but that of the assassin. Itto thanks him and leaves to meditate for days... until he at last becomes one first with all things and finally one with Mu. Retrieving his son Daigoro, Itto goes on to encounter the Buddha as he is traveling through the village. Itto leaps through the air, sword drawn, and slices. At first it seems as though nothing has happened as the Buddha tells Itto "Is this not good? He who perfects his path? Is this not good? The gateless barrier?" He then splits perfectly in half as Itto and Daigoro continue down their chosen path. Gara gara. Gara gara. Gara gara.

#1: The Kindly Ones (Morpheus)

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10deaths/morpheus.jpg" align=left border=0 alt="ComiX-Ten">

Let me just go ahead and say one thing to clear up any confusion some of you might be having. Sandman is the greatest comic ever created. Period. Bold statement? Yes. But it also has the power of truth behind it. Good. I'm glad we could get that out of the way.

This penultimate storyline of Neil Gaiman's opus is not the end by any means... merely an ending, a transition. The central character Morpheus, the living embodiment of Dream, has gone through a series of adventures and changes in his life after escaping decades of captivity in a mage's basement. These adventures eventually lead him to give his son Orpheus the gift of death he so longs for... unfortunately invoking the wrath of the Kindly Ones who are charged with punishing those who spill family blood. They set about invading his realm, the Dreaming, and slaughtering its inhabitants in order to drive him mad and destroy him. Still, as dramatic and epic as it is, this is at its core the story of a lonely man who changed as much as he could and found he could change no more. His death is not an epic battle scene or heroic sacrifice. It's him sitting on a rock, stripped down to his pants, talking to his sister in the rain... it just so happens that his sister IS Death. That's it. Two siblings who care about each other talking. And then Morpheus just... lets go. He takes his sister's hand and he's gone, as the child Daniel becomes the new Dream. As I said, no end... just an ending. And a beginning...

and as though I haven't been long winded enough, I'd like to post on a quick Honorable Mention for the best comics death I've never read... said honor goes to Kid Miracleman. Friends who've read it tell me about it, I've seen random panels of artwork around the Internet but have yet to experience it for myself. So let me use this increasingly heavy soapbox (or is that just me?) to ask Mr. Todd McFarlane... GIVE UP THE RIGHTS TO MIRACLEMAN ALREADY! I want to read the damn comics! Thank you.

Rebuttals:
Mike: Sandman is awesome, but your first name is also a last name, so it evens out. Don't worry, I don't care what all your friends say; I still think you're cool.
Tom: For once I can actually understand your picks. ;) Not sure I agree with you on the Magneto listing, but overall a very good list. Love the diversity you’ve shown in the deaths of many different publishers.
Dave: Jordan. A pox upon you for spoiling me on Preacher! Pox the second for thinking of Morpheus when I didn't! That's two, two poxes! Ya know, some of these deaths I'd never heard of sound really interesting actually, so I'm really tempted to read them. Oh, I'm not going to, but I'm tempted. And now I'm gonna feel bad for not reading them. You made me feel bad. Bastard. You know what's coming, right? Pox times three, buddy boy.
Mitch: I'm taking exception to your list right now based on the fact that you spoiled the end of Preacher for me. In fact, in the spirit of things, it’s pistols at dawn for you and I buddy. Love the inclusion of Bobby Murray, but the Lone Wolf & Cub references are fairly meaningless to me having only read snippets. Nice call on Morpheus… but do the Endless ever truly die?

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Now it’s over, I’m dead, and I haven’t done anything that I want… or I’m still alive, and there’s nothing I want to do.

Don’t forget to vote for your favorite list, and we’ll see you next time!

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The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writers, and are not reflective of ComiX-Fan or its other staff in general.

[Anthony Lucynski]

It's hard for me to agree with these meaningfull deaths when so many of them have no meaning to me whatsoever.

Therefore, i voted for no one.

Anthony L

[NicholasRogue]

You guys had good lists. But I'm making my own b/c well... why the hell not!
10) Rogue and Gambit- yeah I know they're not dead but they could have been. I thought the final page of XXM #16 was poetic in a Romeo and Juliet style death. If they had to die I would have been happy had they died together. But thankfully they're not dead(although many people wish they were- shame on those of you who fit into this category) Anyway being stabbed through the heart while trying to protect your lover as he's being drained dry and near the point of agony from an energy beam powering a whole Intergalactic army of aliens is quite a bad way to go in my opinion. Plus Vargas's pure hatred of Rogue was key to the story. If they had really died it would have been more memorable, although I would probably have stopped reading X-Men comics.
9) Robin II- never read it (don't boo or throw things at me, I will eventually) but from what I've read about it, it seemed a horrible and tragic way to go, especially by Joker!
8) Moira Mactaggert- I can't believe no one had her on their list...maybe because her death was cheapened a little bit. Stupid Mystique had to go psycho and spread the Legacy Virus, only Moira knew the cure only it was locked in her head. She was badly beaten and on the verge of death. I think the final moments b/n her and Charles were really quite beautiful.
7) Illyana Rasputin- poor little Snowflake. Uncanny X-Men #303-304 was so sad. She may have been a superhero and a guardian of limbo, but she still was just a little girl who couldn't speak english when she died.(although she might have been able to, I knew she did before, but I don't think she did afterwards)
6)Thunderbird I- the first real X-Man to die. He wanted a warrior's death and he got one. He wanted to prove himself and he did.
5) Destiny- anyone think she got the raw end of the stick by getting killed by Legion? The woman actually forsaw her own death and yet refused to prevent it. She let nature take its course, she will be truly missed.
4) Pyro- he died not a villain, but a hero. He struggled so much with the Legacy Virus and in the end he couldn't save himself, but was able to save Senator Kelly(who ended up dying later anyway)
3) Blink- sure she may be alive in the Exiles, but our 616 versian sacrificed herself during the Phalanx covenant. We'll never know what could have been.
2) Colossus- the man saved all infected by a virus that killed his sister. He is a true hero- NUFF SAID!
1) Jean Grey- Sure her death in Uncanny X-Men #137 was more meaningful at the time, b/c we all thought it was really Jean, now that we know it was just the phoenix and not really Jean it kinda feels cheapened. I think the actual death of the person Jean Grey in New X-Men #150 is very memorable (although stupid Magneto killing her wasn't) She learned to let go of Scott and yet still to love and to believe. And yes she may be alive in the so called "White hot room" but that won't occur for another 150 years:( Yes I realize I've got 9 X-Men characters, but so what they're all I know! :p

[2ndchance]

I voted for Tom's because he picked Jeans death on the spaceship. That was the true sacifice not the death on the moon.

[catseye107]

what?? no Doug Ramsey!
but i gotta go with dave's list.

[NicholasRogue]

Originally posted by catseye107
what?? no Doug Ramsey!
but i gotta go with dave's list.

Shoot I know I was forgetting somebody on my list!!!! Yeah I want to add Doug and the first Changeling too! Changeling took the Professor's place and reverted from his evil ways when he knew he was going to die from a disease. Didn't some alien invader kill him? Yeah poor Doug got shot. Don't look at me weird, but I don't know by who or how he got shot. Could someone explain?

[HNutz]

I don't think that any one person's list was PERFECT, but I think Jordan once again had a slightly better list this go-around.

[Zachary J. Morrison]

Not bad a list, however, they don't seem to click with me. Maybe it's because I'm out of energy or maybe it's because not a lot of the choices mean a lot to me. I do have to say, I'm glad for the ones who mentioned the meaningful deaths of Jean Grey as the Phoenix, both Uncle Ben and Ben Reilly, Gwen Stacy, Supes, Illyana Rasputin, and a few more meaningful deaths, but I don't think Colossus's death was really meaningful, although he truly missed having his little sis around, and blames himself and Xavier for her death, but why kill himself to be with his family just because he wants the cure for himself or something. So here's the one I voted for :: drumroll please :: and the winner is Vote for these guys? Drop dead. I practically had to choose that one because it fit and it was funny, I think...

[Jon Hancock]

good lists. still upset that there was no tulip.

[ScottyM]

Looks like everyone forgot about Frank Castle's family. Franks family was ripped from him in front of his eyes, and like Spiderman, it is an event that changed him forever...just in a different way. He was sick and tired of seeing criminals going free, so he decided to take matters in his own hands...can you blame him?

[Jon Hancock]

Originally posted by ScottyM
Looks like everyone forgot about Frank Castle's family. Franks family was ripped from him in front of his eyes, and like Spiderman, it is an event that changed him forever...just in a different way. He was sick and tired of seeing criminals going free, so he decided to take matters in his own hands...can you blame him?

Disagree. Born shows that Frank was messed up long before his family died.

[gatorgav]

Dang this is a hard one to make a call on. Do I vote for a list of characters whose deaths were final to never come back and laid the foundations for a story ie The Waynes, Uncle Ben. Do I vote for "deaths" that were designed to alter the character ie Barbara Gordon, Pheonix or do I vote for those dramatic deaths where the character became a martyr or was able to give the two-fingered salute to the bad guys before buying it (ie Colosus or Jenny Sparks)? I like Jordan's list because he put Jenny Sparks on it. I like Tom's list because of Optimus (hehe I cried as a kid). However I think I have to go with Dave's list because of Pheonix, the Wayne's and Uncle Ben are all toward the top despite the fact that Ilyana and Gwen are on his list. Tough to make a decision though even as I am writing I am wanting to change my vote guess I just have to vote and not think about it anymore.

[Erika Santiago]

I voted for Jordan's list, if only because Morpheus' death was in it. 'Twas indeed a tragedy. :(

[Marvel Boy]

I voted for Mitch's list because he listed Genosha, and I enjoyed the quote from the batman movie. "Ever dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight?"

[sage_one]

Where is the death of Northstar's adopted baby from AIDS? Isn't this considered groundbreaking not only in the world of comics but also in all mediums?

[russbrett77]

Originally posted by NicholasRogue


Shoot I know I was forgetting somebody on my list!!!! Yeah I want to add Doug and the first Changeling too! Changeling took the Professor's place and reverted from his evil ways when he knew he was going to die from a disease. Didn't some alien invader kill him? Yeah poor Doug got shot. Don't look at me weird, but I don't know by who or how he got shot. Could someone explain?


The New Mutants were rescuing one of their friends from the Ani-Mator's island (a mad scientist who engineered half human / half animals). He was going to shoot Rahne, but Doug pushed her out of the way and took the bullet. The true tragedy was that nobody noticed that he had been shot. Doug died and not a single one of his friends noticed. Once the New Mutants won their battle they realized that Doug had been shot. The dialogue is kind of weak during this scene (though I think Doug has one of the best death lines ever), but the art more than makes up for it.

How this one got left off the above lists is beyond me.

I would also add Riptide's death to a list. After murdering so many Morlocks during the Mutant Massacre (and nearly killing Kurt), Colossus simply walks up to the Marauder and snaps his neck. This is a turning point for Colossus and the X-Men. This moment begins their decent into an outlaw band of mutants, and also begins the darker period of the X-Men books. Kind, gentle, Piotr murdered someone with his bare hands. The X-Men would never be the same again.

[NicholasRogue]

Originally posted by russbrett77



The New Mutants were rescuing one of their friends from the Ani-Mator's island (a mad scientist who engineered half human / half animals). He was going to shoot Rahne, but Doug pushed her out of the way and took the bullet. The true tragedy was that nobody noticed that he had been shot. Doug died and not a single one of his friends noticed. Once the New Mutants won their battle they realized that Doug had been shot. The dialogue is kind of weak during this scene (though I think Doug has one of the best death lines ever), but the art more than makes up for it.

How this one got left off the above lists is beyond me.

I would also add Riptide's death to a list. After murdering so many Morlocks during the Mutant Massacre (and nearly killing Kurt), Colossus simply walks up to the Marauder and snaps his neck. This is a turning point for Colossus and the X-Men. This moment begins their decent into an outlaw band of mutants, and also begins the darker period of the X-Men books. Kind, gentle, Piotr murdered someone with his bare hands. The X-Men would never be the same again.


Thanks for the info about Doug- oh jeeze they didn't even notice he was shot? that's really bad!!!:( and as for Riptide- yeah it was a turning point, but since he just got cloned and came back again by Mr. Sinister I didn't really care. He did kill tons of morlocks and injured Nightcrawler and the other X-Men, he deserved what he got.

[Wolverine]

I voted for Jordan's cause the Sandman's death was simply stunning

[chrey149]

I voted for Tom. But I was surprised that no one metioned ShadowHawk, the first one. Another really meaningful death was that of sunfire in exiles.

[Nick Costanzo]

Originally posted by sage_one
Where is the death of Northstar's adopted baby from AIDS? Isn't this considered groundbreaking not only in the world of comics but also in all mediums?

Unfortunately its not very meaningful because its never been brought up since, especially not in Uncanny. It would have been cool if it were explored more but as it stands it almost seems like Marvel is ignore stories like that.

Jordan gets my pick because he needs the self-esteem boost :p

[Mitch Brown]

Yes, but I'm giving out free ice cream didn't you hear? :clown:

[Al Harahap]

Interesting lists all around. Seeing as no one included the brilliant buildup and execution of my beautiful Edie Sawyer's death ( :~( ), it looks like I'm actually going to have to make an objective decision that requires thought. Damn you guys.

[Suzene]

What?!

No Doug Ramsey and no Joanne Beaubier are bad enough but...

No One-Eye?

No Winnowill? (All right, so it's meaningful because of the sacrifice someone else had to make because she died...)

No Blink?

Fie!

*sulk*

Suzene

[dizfactor]

it was a hard call between Mitch and Jordan, but i ultimately picked Jordan. Mitch had my #1 (Lady Edith Manning) on his list, as well as Rorschach and Jason Todd, but Bobby Murray and Morpheus together narrowly edge out Edie. i remember waiting with baited breath for the issue of Sandman where Morpheus died, but when it finally did come out, i almost didn't open it. i just didn't want to go there. then, when i opened it and it was revisiting "The Sound of her Wings," i lost it. then i lost it a few more times during The Wake.

lots of good deaths in Sandman in general. Orpheus and Fiddler's Green are probably the most moving aside from the big guy himself, but there's also Ishtar's blaze of glory, and Emperor Norton, and the old Jewish guy who used to play the fiddle, and all the people in the diner, and of course Wanda (who was most definitely not Alvin).

Mike gets mad props for Maus, also, but it's hard for me to think of it in the same category as the others on the list.

i think Uncle Ben and the Waynes are the most important background characters to die in superhero comics, but i think Jean Grey and Jason Todd are the two deaths which have affected the direction of comics already in progress the most. both of them have totally scarred the characters close to them permanently.

EDIT: Al Harahap has a good call with Edie Sawyer.

[CmX]

I agree...I think Blink (616 of course) should have at least been in one of them.

Some characters that were mentioned were just.....no. :p

I liked (I forget which one of you) the list where Barbara was mentioned. Sure she didn't die, but it was a great, yet tragic story.

[Threespot]

Originally posted by Jonberg


Disagree. Born shows that Frank was messed up long before his family died.

Frank was willing to walk away from his life of killing for his family, which to me means he's not as messed up as most people think. Throughout the story he had the chance from the unrecognized voice to be able to fight forever and he didn't take them up on it, that is until there was zero chance he would survive without thier help. Also I think that the death of Castles family is a turning point for him, because as he clearly states in Born he was ready to give it up killing for his family.

Unfortunately the price he had to pay to live and get back to his family, unbeknownest to him, was his family. This is what makes him a truly tragic figure since he is damned by his own hand.

Frank knew what he was good at and he did it well, which unfortunately was killing. He took pleasure in it yeah, but that was the plesaure of someone doing what they do best not sadism.

To me Jesse and Cassidy's fight at dawn was morality imbued. You fight someone for robbing a bank, you fight someone for killing a stranger, you beat the living sh!t out of your best friend but don't kill him. When he betrays you completely, because even though he hurt you worse than anyone in the world, you still love him. To many times when heroes are betrayed in comics they acted shocked and outraged, but the look on Jesse's face is heartbroken.

Another death that I think should have gotten an honorable mention was Eddie Sawyer in the final issues of X-Force. This was a woman in the short time she was in comics revealed more to us as a person that any heroine I have ever seen. She was flawed beyond belief and lived a life style of decadence, but somehow she still was a hero which I think everyone wants to be despite thier flaws. She had a sh!tty life that she lost just after finding the best thing to happen to her ever, Guy Smith. We loved her too much.

Jenny Sparks to me seemed like what Captain America would be if he actually had fun. She drank, smoked, screwed, and led the super hero world on numerous occasions inspiring people to make the world better. But what they never saw was the tired veteran that had fought to many wars, lost too many friends, and seen too many things to have much hope left. But she hoped with all her heart, and inspired hope in others.

I voted for Jordans list because it had the most memoriable deaths in it that left lasting influences on me which shed real light into the tragicness of heroes. All to many times the label "hero" is stamped on those who did something great for the world but didn't live to see it. In the words of Jenny Sparks, "Bugger this. I want a better world."

[Alphabet Pet]

Some pretty good choices but here are my thoughts on who shouldn't be on these lists...

Disqualify anyone who didn't actually die 'cause the topic is meaningful deaths, right?

Also disqualify anyone who didn't stay dead. Ever explained to a non-comics fan the entire Jean/Phoenix thing. No wonder so many don't take the medium seriously.

Finally, eliminate non-comic book deaths from the list. Particularly Optimus Prime's as it is a reminder of the other way he died. While his death in the movie was tragic (couldn't Hod Rod have just SHOT Megatron when he saw him reaching for that gun?!?), his death in the comics (Transformers Vol 1, issue 24) was anything but. Almost twenty years later and I'm still trying to rationalize it. "I killed a simulation of lifeforms and because of that I should die and let Megatron steal the gizmo and endanger REAL lives." If you're making a list of worst comic book deaths ever, I've got your number one right there.

[dizfactor]

Originally posted by Alphabet Pet
Finally, eliminate non-comic book deaths from the list. Particularly Optimus Prime's as it is a reminder of the other way he died. While his death in the movie was tragic (couldn't Hod Rod have just SHOT Megatron when he saw him reaching for that gun?!?), his death in the comics (Transformers Vol 1, issue 24) was anything but. Almost twenty years later and I'm still trying to rationalize it. &quot;I killed a simulation of lifeforms and because of that I should die and let Megatron steal the gizmo and endanger REAL lives.&quot; If you're making a list of worst comic book deaths ever, I've got your number one right there.

oh sweet jeebus, i remember that! that made me SO angry when i was a kid because it was SO stupid. i loved how the guy managed to save Optimus Prime's personality on a floppy disk afterwards. a floppy disk in the 80s held, what, like 10K?

[Mitch Brown]

to Al & Dizfactor - if its any consolation - Edie Sawyer actually only *just* narrowly missed the final cut for my own list. Based on the relative recency of her death and the fact that it has not effected any title other than X-Statix (..and seems to have been somewhat forgotten in the last 2 arcs) I decided to leave her off.
Consider this post to be a post-script honourary mention though :)

[Kevin Sutton]

Mitch got my vote, but Jordan was good to include Jenny Sparks.

[mrhelm]

Mitch had to win because he included one of the most important and underappreciated deaths in comics, V. I'll even excuse his inclusion of Colossus on the list for that.

That is one of the least important deaths in comic history.

[Dragon]

I agree with Tom's list totally come on he put in the death of Roy Fokker and Optimus Prime, two of the greatest and saddest deaths i ever experinced in my childhood, that alone gets my vote

[Robb Welch]

Its hard to take a list of meaningful deaths seriously when the author is basicaly begging for a petition to retcon them back to life. Espessialy when some of those deaths never even happend. Im looking at you Mike Gonzalez

[LoganBane]

The most surprising, given the talk around here, I'm surprised no one meationed Psylocke. Dang, ya'll r' slippin'.

[Sandoz]

Yay, Morpheus got mentioned!

I'd also have liked to see Doug Ramsey's death recognized. He saved Wolsbane's life by giving his own, and she didn't even notice until after the fact. His final line tears me up whenever I read it.

Originally posted by russbrett77
I would also add Riptide's death to a list. After murdering so many Morlocks during the Mutant Massacre (and nearly killing Kurt), Colossus simply walks up to the Marauder and snaps his neck. This is a turning point for Colossus and the X-Men. This moment begins their decent into an outlaw band of mutants, and also begins the darker period of the X-Men books. Kind, gentle, Piotr murdered someone with his bare hands. The X-Men would never be the same again.

Have to disagree with this one. While the Morlock Massacre was a powerful story and definitely a turning point, "Petey Pureheart's" murder of Riptide never struck me as shocking since he had been forced to kill Proteus with his bare hands years earlier.

[DancinFool]

So who I do congratulate for including a great They Might Be Giants song quote at the end?

[Hawke]

I agree with Colossus, I actually cried when he died. I dunno. But I need to mention Eddie Sawyers. (U Go Girl). Milligan taught us to accept that heros die, he killed off many characters in his run, yet he still struck home when he killed off our favorite girl we hate. I will always miss you Eddie.
Yeah.

[Ann Nichols]

A lot of these deaths happened while I was a comic book dropout, but I voted for Mitch's list because the way he described the deaths of the characters didn't know made me care a little.

[DCUnited]

I don't know if anyone has already mentioned/talked about this because I don't have the time to search through 3 pages of posts, but I think that Batgirl is definitely justified on Dave's list. Barbara Gordon may not have died, but in a sense that Batgirl did. I think that it is totally possible for a hero to die without the person behind the mask dying as well.

Also with Angel the hero Angel, as we knew him, died with that. When he lost his wings I would imagine it would be like the death of one's hopes and dreams. While I never knew about the plane thing, I assume when he came back it was as a horseman and I don't think you can be under the influence of Apocalypse and not be changed.

Superman's death is also justifiable, I think. Sure he came back and was apparently never dead to begin with, but we didn't know that at first. What the world knew was that a hero gave his life to save the world. The Return of Superman aside, we essenitally saw the death of one of the greatest heroes ever with that story.

[Joel Phillips]

Originally posted by DancinFool
So who I do congratulate for including a great They Might Be Giants song quote at the end?

That'd be me. Glad somebody knew what it was. ;)

[Wheeze]

Rorschach is by far the best choice on that list, Watchmen being as amazing as it is. Few of those other deaths came close to matching the emotion behind that one.

[Patrick James]

Tom gets my vote and major props for X-Men #100 and The Death of Captain Mar-Vell.

[Lia Brown]

I had no choice but to vote for Mike's, because he included Pyro. What can I say, I'm predictable and pleased that someone remembered him :p

[Patrick James]

Originally posted by LoganBane
The most surprising, given the talk around here, I'm surprised no one meationed Psylocke. Dang, ya'll r' slippin'.

No one mentioned her because even her fanatics acknowledge that her death was pointless and meant nothing. Perhaps that's why they are so adamant about getting her brought back to life;)

[Mesran]

Optimus Prime :(

Same reason as listed, he was my favorite character as a kid and it had the most impact. I was so happy when he came back a couple years later.

All the other deaths were absolutely meaningless to me at the time and now.

[Mitch Brown]

Originally posted by Patrick James


No one mentioned her because even her fanatics acknowledge that her death was pointless and meant nothing. Perhaps that's why they are so adamant about getting her brought back to life;)

Hear, Hear!!! :)

[Swandogg]

I had to vote for Tom because he was the only one who gave the Icon, Superman some love. Come on, that story was unreal! Where's the love?

[iceman06]

Originally posted by Joel Phillips
For the life of me, I will never understand why Scott Lobdell killed off Colossus. For years before, Piotr was subject to the most awful characterization in comics. From doing the most improbable things, such as joining the Acolytes, to EVER quitting painting, Colossus was abused throughout much of the 90's. Maybe the Legacy-induced death was an attempt to restore some sense of honor in the frequently abused character... or more likely, maybe it was just to try and push some more issues in an increasingly sagging readership? Either way, the loss of Colossus is still lamented and this space exists to honor him and bid his return some day.

You do realize that Colossus was a perfectly interesting character until Scott Lobdell, who wrote the character throughout the 90's, gave him awful characterization made him do the most improbable things like join the Acolytes and quit painting. It would seem obvious to me, even if I didn't seem to recall him saying that Colossus was his least favorite X-Man, that he at the very least had trouble writing him and basically killed off his worst enemy. Yes, I do acknowledge and appreciate the good he did with the characters I've created webpages for below.

[Frank Castiglione]

how can the death of the punishers family not be in one of these lists?

bleh.

[cicada rosa]

Thank God somebody said Morpheus! I just kept waiting for him to be on somebody's list. Kudos!

And Gwen Stacy is number one hands down for lasting ramifications, meaning, heartbreak and for actually staying 6 feet under.

[mackaybear]

Actually the top meaningful death in comics to me would be the that of the idea of killing off a character without good reason.

Kind of the death of meaningless death in comics.

Still Death of the Endless is a great character. Her moments in the Books of Magic mini when Tim had traveled to the "death of the universe" were great. Just "tidying up the universe" per se.

[maestro_takatak]

I'm very surprised that nobody mentioned Jean DeWolff.

Sadly, I'm NOT very surprised that nobody mentioned the comic-character death that brought tears to my eyes. And that's the death of Kreed from Mike Baron and Steve Rude's "Nexus". Why more people aren't fans of that comic puzzles me to no end.

the Maestro
(who used to have "Now it's over, I'm dead, and I haven't done anything that I want, or, I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do" as his sig line on usenet forums)

[tyg]

I'm sorry, but any set of 5 top ten death lists in which none of the following are referenced indicates y'all aren't up on comics history.

Death of the original Doom Patrol. Classic where the DP choose to sacrifice their lives for the 14 inhabitants of a Maine fishing village, none of whom have anything special to offer the world. And it's not a "killed in the act of trying to save the village action scene". Rather, the DP were captured and given a choice; the villain would either push a button killing them, or a button destroying the village...and they'd be let go.

Death of Ferro Lad in the Legion. Again, a knowing sacrifice.

Death of Superman; "Imaginary story" from the 1960s. *Much* more powerful and thought out than the Doomsday story.

Death of Aquababy. Still affecting Aquaman decades later (real time), a relatively rare case of a completely innocent toddler who really matters to the lead character and who's been around for years being killed off.

And no one even mentioned the death of Bucky...there are undoubtedly many more, but these are five *very* significant and strong story deaths that weren't even mentioned above, while much lamer ones such as Angel's wings (not even a "death" but at #2?!) and Ben Reilly get star billing.

[x-cess]

they all forgott edie! (u-go-girl)

[Radiate]

Originally posted by iceman06


You do realize that Colossus was a perfectly interesting character until Scott Lobdell, who wrote the character throughout the 90's, gave him awful characterization made him do the most improbable things like join the Acolytes and quit painting. It would seem obvious to me, even if I didn't seem to recall him saying that Colossus was his least favorite X-Man, that he at the very least had trouble writing him and basically killed off his worst enemy. Yes, I do acknowledge and appreciate the good he did with the characters I've created webpages for below.

Hmm...i have to disagree here.Possibly Scott Lobdell didn't really know how to write Colossus but he managed to progress the character and evolve him making him moe complex than straight forward.I mean he joined Magneto!Who would have thought he would do that?!

He was so innocent and naive and he joined Magneto.That was huge...but Lobdell was able to make his death unique.The last words on that page were from Giant Sized X-Men #1 which was just a fantastic way of seeing Colossus off.

Lobdell was able to give Colossus reason to sacrifice himself.HE was able to pool ALL that had happened to Colossus over the years to make his decision to kill himself real.That the deaths of Illyana from the virus and seeing so many other...it took him over.He couldn't imagine seeing anyone die from the Virus when he held the chance to curing it...It was a nobel thing and Lobdell pulled it off nicely:yes:

I voted for Jordan cos every time these poll thingies come up he somehow manages to get me to vote for him:p

But i gotta say i'm shocked!That no one mentioned the death of Elektra?!

It was brutal it was harsh and gritty and it shocked!Her deathw as so...man it was dark!And it wasn't on the lists!:cuckoo:

RADIATE!

[Genis_Marvel]

i voted for toms list because of how far captian marvel was at the top of his list. because captain marvel was and still is and always will be the greatest;)

[DRB]

How could Colossus not be number one on all list? He saved an entire race. Thankfully Marvel has not messed up an tried to bring him back.

[DarkCrisis]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, didn't Stan Lee or one of the other high ups say that Gwen was dead BEFORE GG tossed her off the bridge? Spidy may not realize this but he is actually not her killer.

[Post]

What? No Bucky?

[Kent Miller]

I have to give props to The Maxwell on this one, but good and hearty lists all around!

Here are some of my thoughts:

- Having just read the X-Force: Volume 2 TPB for my birthday, I am grieving over Edie Sawyer. This was really the first X-Force that I read, and I already miss U-Go Girl :(.

- Hmm. Much like Rad, I would have expected at least an Honorable Mention to Elektra and her brutal impalement. Sure, she came back, but I don't think that lessens the impact at all.

- I'd like to make an Honorable Mention on my own personal list for the Thing's Nameless Imposter from the classic Fantastic Four tale, "This Man, This Monster". I don't know about anyone else, but that moved me quite a bit.

Anyways, good work everyone! :D

[GambitXtreme]

My own answers to this poll would be:

10. Magneto in Planet X: The final Magneto story served as an epitaph for old school cheese. Magneto's "World Domination" trip seemed the final nail in the coffin for villainy for villainy's sake. The ease with which he dies, Wolverine beheading him after all the chaos he had caused, was fitting. And the fact that he went out a drug addicted psychopath instead of a respected megalomaniac also showed how pathetic he had become. But, he did take out Jean Grey (again) before he died.

9. Maggott in Weapon X: I hate Maggott. BUT, his death did serve a purpose. It showcased the dark future about to be upon the mutants. And it demonstrated just how evil the intentions of the Weapon X directive are. For such a crappy character to make such a poignant statement with his death, something he was unable to do in life, was extraordinary.

8. Barry Allen in Crisis on Infinite Earths: I remember just how horrific his sacrifice was. And how Psycho Pirate and Kid Flash just lost it in the aftermath. Barry Allen left a legacy for Wally West (and even Impulse) that is nearly impossible to live up to. However, I prefer Wally West's flaws to Barry Allen's near perfection and heroism. Still, a very moving death.

7. Colossus in Uncanny X-Men: I do not think even ONE writer who has written the X-Books since his death does not want to kick the editors and Scott Lobdell square in the genitals for killing off a character with so much potential as Colossus. Sure, he was grossly mischaracterized through the 1990s, and he did watch every single member of his family die, including his parents at the hands of the forgettable Skinner of Souls and his baby sister to a mutant killing disease, but no one expected him to take his own life. It proved, at the very least, that comic books can still deliver a shock.

6. Elektra in Daredevil: One of the best told romances in Comic Book History, in my opinion. And so destined to end in tragedy. To date, I still wish they allowed Elektra to rest in peace. The story was so profound, and really ignited the Daredevil series' popularity.

5. Jason Todd (Robin 2) in Batman: I remember DC taking a survey to see whether Robin lived or died, and I was shocked to discover that everyone hated the second Robin as much as I did! This was no Tim Drake, who I actually like a lot. This was a flamboyant, loud mouthed, whiney little brat in a skimpy outfit who constantly was getting himself in trouble. Plus, it made the Joker even more formidable, and insane! I am going to re-read that tonight. Sigh. :)

4. The Morlocks in The Mutant Massacre: One of the most compelling stories in X-Men history. We get to sit front row and watch dozens and dozens of mutants killed off by Sabretooth, Harpoon, Scalphunter, Arclight and the rest of the sick and twist sociopaths known as The Marauders. The X-Men do not walk away unscathed, either, with Angel, Beast, Shadowcat, Nightcrawler and Colossus all mortally wounded, and Wolverine, Storm and Psylocke all pretty brutally beaten. But, it is the Morlocks that pay the ultimate price, all at the whim of a mysterious Mr. Sinister.

3. Terra in The Judas Contract: In a change of events that absolutely shocked everyone, Terra, the newest and youngest Teen Titan, turned out to be a traitor, hired by Deathstroke and The Hive to infiltrate the Titans, learn their weaknesses and use their trust against them. She was not the fresh faced skamp they knew, but instead a cigarette smoking, slutty, paint faced tart who, at 14, was sleeping with Deathstroke. She nearly succeeded in killing the Titans, if not for Nightwing and Jericho. In the end, her rage overcomes her, and she buries herself alive, crushing the life from her.

2. Phoenix in the Dark Phoenix Saga: This effected the X-Men Universe for years. When Jean Grey committed suicide on the moon in order to save the universe from her out of control god like abilities, the X-Men forever changed. Cyclops was crushed, and though her stuck around for a little while, his ability to lead was questionable and he eventually retired and married an exact replica of Jean, who wound up being a clone. Of course, we know how that story ends... Jean returns, she and Scott become the worst characterized X-Men of the 1990s as the Boyscout and his perfect little wife, and eventually Jean actually becomes the Phoenix and dies... again. But, the original death was so profound.


1. TIE: Thomas and Martha Wayne and Uncle Ben (Batman and Spiderman): Their deaths spawned the two most popular comic book characters of all time: Batman and Spiderman. Both are equally effective, and both equally changed the entire medium.

[Patrick James]

Seems like a heaping helping of "none of the above" this time...

[Wheeze]

I can't stand how people keep talking about Colossus' characterization flaws with Scott Lobdell. For me, Lobdell is by far the best writer to ever touch a page of X-Men. It seems to me alot of people don't like what Lobdell did because Colossus did not remain the same static character he had always been, the big guy with the accent who painted. That's what he had been for so long, and then suddenly he was hit with tragedy after tragedy. His brother, his sister, friends and enemies. He was surrounded by death and destruction, and he decided to join Magneto in the hopes that he would be able to create a better world for him and his people. He didn't "turn evil" (as anyone who has read all of Fatal Attractions would know) or any such thing, he merely underwent what I thought was a brilliant character growth spurt. He was a pure hearted man who had been beaten down so much that he HAD to change. I think it was masterfully handled and one of my favorite stories in X-Men.

As for his death, I wouldn't be so quick to blame it squarely on Lobdell. We all know he was supposed to come up with a quick solution for the end of the Legacy virus, and whether the Colossus death was his idea or not is a moot point, because at least he tried to give a meaningful end to a good idea that had become sour over time.

[Alex Guillen]

I voted jordan's list. some great deaths in there and very good analysis.

I have to recognize all the lists had good deaths in them that meant something but no Bucky? Thank God. :D

i guess the saddest death to me was Colossus as well as Gwen stacy's.

[Jesse Baer]

a lot of good lists, I voted for Dave's list, I like the inclusion of Barry and Supergirl, Phoenix, and your inclusion of Batgirl really won me over.

Some names I'm kind of surpised weren't even mentioned, since they were very meaningful, include:
Bucky- mentioned by other posters, one of the few and first major characters to die and stay dead. Not that great a character, but still, the exception that proves the rule that no one stays dead in comics.
General Zod and the two other Kryptonians that Superman killed- they got Superman to kill, Superman
The character that Wonder Woman killed in Kingdom Come- again, seeing a major character who will not kill, kill, and so easily

[HandofGod]

10) Collossus -did what was necessary
9) Superman is at number 9, just because his 'death' was most widely recognized
8) 616 Blink we knew this character for only 3 or 4 issues and she still left an impact for most readers...she had the coolest powers...was the most dynamic thing coming out of the 90s and then just as soon as we saw her she was gone....
7) Doug Ramsey - just because his speech was killer....other than that his death was pretty meaningless ...sad but meaningless
6) Skin - his death was very meaningful...at his funeral Jubliee and Husk discuss Warren and sex etc....his death illustrates where the Uncanny X was at the time...
5) Phoenix - all her deaths and rebirths and deaths are meaningful thats the point that is why she is in my middle
4) Jason Todd- Batman still cries over the loss of his boy
3) Madelyne Pryor - I am a Jean fan and I hate Maddie but her death was a true end to Dark Phoenix....
2) Revanche - the loss of Kwannon meant no recot. for Psylocke no going back to her body, and we lost a very interesting character in Kwannon. If it had been me I would have switched the bodies back without the legacy virus....then you would of had Kwannon Asian telepath without the body swap mess, and Elisabeth Braddock Psylocke with her original powers, and better fighting skills. but thats about it end of mess...killing her was poignant because it foreshadowed her 'sisters' death
1) Psylocke - the dead stay dead rule is now in effect.....but only for Psylocke :{

[iceman06]

Originally posted by Radiate


Hmm...i have to disagree here.Possibly Scott Lobdell didn't really know how to write Colossus but he managed to progress the character and evolve him making him moe complex than straight forward.I mean he joined Magneto!Who would have thought he would do that?!

He was so innocent and naive and he joined Magneto.That was huge...but Lobdell was able to make his death unique.The last words on that page were from Giant Sized X-Men #1 which was just a fantastic way of seeing Colossus off.

Lobdell was able to give Colossus reason to sacrifice himself.HE was able to pool ALL that had happened to Colossus over the years to make his decision to kill himself real.That the deaths of Illyana from the virus and seeing so many other...it took him over.He couldn't imagine seeing anyone die from the Virus when he held the chance to curing it...It was a nobel thing and Lobdell pulled it off nicely

"You do realize that Colossus was a perfectly interesting character until Scott Lobdell, who wrote the character throughout the 90's, gave him awful characterization made him do the most improbable things like join the Acolytes and quit painting. It would seem obvious to me, even if I didn't seem to recall him saying that Colossus was his least favorite X-Man, that he at the very least had trouble writing him and basically killed off his worst enemy. Yes, I do acknowledge and appreciate the good he did with the characters I've created webpages for below."

What exactly are you disagreeing with? I never said that Colossus's death didn't belong on the list. I personally think it ranks very highly. I made a point of using phrases lifted from the listmakers entry on Colossus to show that all the faults he found with Colossus's characterization and treatment throughout the 90's were created by the same person he praised for doing such a great job with Colossus. Maybe, I should've used quotation marks, but disagree with the listmaker not me. My point is that if Lobdell had been able to write Colossus well he wouldn't have needed to make that noble sacrifice to redeem himself as a character.

[Radiate]

Originally posted by iceman06
What exactly are you disagreeing with? I never said that Colossus's death didn't belong on the list.


Neither did i?:?I know you didn't say Colossus' death should not have been on the list...

Originally posted by iceman06
I personally think it ranks very highly. I made a point of using phrases lifted from the listmakers entry on Colossus to show that all the faults he found with Colossus's characterization and treatment throughout the 90's were created by the same person he praised for doing such a great job with Colossus. Maybe, I should've used quotation marks, but disagree with the listmaker not me. My point is that if Lobdell had been able to write Colossus well he wouldn't have needed to make that noble sacrifice to redeem himself as a character.

...I was disagreeing with what you said about Lobdell writing Colossus badly.From what i said with the post before,Lobdell was,IS a great writer.But the fact is he wrote Colossus SO well that it resulted in his death.

That may've sound awkward but basically my point is that everything Lobdell did for the character and what other writers wrote was natural for him to bring him to this sacrifice.It was just that Lobdell recognised that Colossus was the perfect character to sacrifice his life to cure the Virus,not because he's noble but because with everything that happened in his life he HAD to be the one to cure the Virus.That to me is good writing of a character.:yes:

RADIATE!

[iceman06]

Originally posted by Wheeze
I can't stand how people keep talking about Colossus' characterization flaws with Scott Lobdell. For me, Lobdell is by far the best writer to ever touch a page of X-Men. It seems to me alot of people don't like what Lobdell did because Colossus did not remain the same static character he had always been, the big guy with the accent who painted. That's what he had been for so long, and then suddenly he was hit with tragedy after tragedy. His brother, his sister, friends and enemies. He was surrounded by death and destruction, and he decided to join Magneto in the hopes that he would be able to create a better world for him and his people. He didn't &quot;turn evil&quot; (as anyone who has read all of Fatal Attractions would know) or any such thing, he merely underwent what I thought was a brilliant character growth spurt. He was a pure hearted man who had been beaten down so much that he HAD to change. I think it was masterfully handled and one of my favorite stories in X-Men.

I had to consider whether a post containing the sentence "For me, Lobdell is by far the best writer to ever touch a page of X-Men," was worth my response, but I just had to reply. Now, there's a difference between not remaining a static character and getting so screwed up that you need to be redeemed with a heroic death. The main difference is that people can still read new stories about a rejuvenated character. Colossus was a great character, then he was just OK, then he sucked, and then he died a hero. I'm supposed to be impressed by the fact that Lobdell took a character who was just OK, made him suck, and then killed him? You described a lot of stuff that happened to Colossus. How exactly did Colossus change for the better?

Originally posted by Wheeze
As for his death, I wouldn't be so quick to blame it squarely on Lobdell. We all know he was supposed to come up with a quick solution for the end of the Legacy virus, and whether the Colossus death was his idea or not is a moot point, because at least he tried to give a meaningful end to a good idea that had become sour over time.

Basically, he was told to clean up his mess. The Legacy Virus could have been a great addition to the X-Men lore had the idea been handled properly throughout the 90's...the decade dominated by Lobdell. Again, don't get me wrong. I do like the guy, much of his writing, and his wild ideas. I just think he dropped the ball a few times, and here he dropped two in my opinion...not with the death/cure but with the handling of the character and the idea throughout his run.

[Radiate]

To be honest although the Legacy Virus WAS a good idea there was just NO way to take it in my opinin which was one of it's downfalls.BUt yes i do agree Lobdell did some not so great things like Iceman's taking down of Zero Tolerance.That was cool and all but the ending...anit climatic kinda of?!:p

BUt not to go off topic but why oh why isn't Elektra's death here?!

RADIATE!

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

hey...since when can't we vote for more than one option? i feel bad, not being able to give Mitch and Dave the props they deserve...

because yes, i am the kind of egotistical bastard who would vote for himself. sue me. ;)

[crbinva]

I voted for Dave's list - cos he mentions the death of Supergirl. I know that there have been a lot of super girls to deal with since, but that particular death in the Crisis series was tough - I'm speaking on recollection, as it's been awhile since I've read it - but it's always stuck in my head, so it must've made an impression.

[si"hitman"parkes]

I'm only going to mention one death. Because nobody else did.

The comic has been mentioned before, because you can't talk about death in comic books without the name Spider-Man. Yet it's not the death of Gwen Stacy, or Norman Osborne, or the Scarlet Spider or even Uncle Ben that poses the greatest significance.

It's the death of Harry Osborne.

The guy lived through as much hell as Peter Parker ever did and it drove him under. A nasty character towards his friends and worse towards his enemies, who were too often one and the same. Death and despair haunted his every move. Harry Osborne was drowning every day, except one. The day he died.

Through smoke and fire on the hellish goblin glider Harry brought his best friend to safety. He finally reached the surface and his demons could not drag him down. Yet Harry Osborne didn't get to live happily ever after, he didn't get to live at all. He died a hero and it doesn't get more meaningful than that.

[HNutz]

Originally posted by Joel Phillips
Dave: Jordan. A pox upon you for spoiling me on Preacher!

Just so's ya know.... that's not EXACTLY the end of the book... you still should pick it up...

[Threespot]

Originally posted by HNutz


Just so's ya know.... that's not EXACTLY the end of the book... you still should pick it up...

It is not the final destination that you arrive at that matters but the journey itself.

AND Preacher is exactly that, a journey.

[Shadow Crawler]

=O
Jardan T. Maxwell, I love your list. It has Jenny Sparks. I must agree that I too had a bit of a crush on her as well. =P

It made me sad when she died =(

[A.W. Pemberton]

I voted for Jordan, and i must thank him for ruining the endings of both Preacher and Sandman for me :hrm:. Maybe there could have been some type of warning at the start.

[Lia Brown]

Originally posted by Radiate
To be honest although the Legacy Virus WAS a good idea there was just NO way to take it in my opinin which was one of it's downfalls.

Yeah, Legacy was an okay idea at least, but it was handled badly, and poor Pyro was the perfect example. He got dragged out of limbo every time Marvel wanted to remind us that the disease still existed, because after Illyana and Revanche, nobody of consequence really died or became ill. When Moira became infected, she scarcely had any symptoms. But very little was done with it for years other than occasionally dragging out Pyro and making him insane/disfigured/coughing up a lung, and it's not surprising the plot became a joke (I've seen readers blame Pyro himself for this, but that's a bizarre point of view). Until he died (a few months before the cure in our time, a few weeks before it in comics time), he was actually the longest-lived victim of the disease. I guess he technically still had it the longest.

I give Robert Weinberg---who wrote the death---props for actually making something decent out of the crap that was done with St. John. It was good, as deaths go. Though I still think he should not have died at all, and it's a shame Colossus had to be sacrificed to the plotline too.

I suppose I'd be less peeved about Pyro's death if there actually seemed to be some fallout/reaction from it. But Kelly of course died the next day, and Pyro himself has scarcely been mentioned since---even his former friends in the Brotherhood haven't mentioned him. I think it'd be interersting to see their reaction to their close friend's betrayal of the cause and actual death, though it's like they haven't even noticed it.
But this lack of fallout is not Weinberg's fault nor the actual issue's fault, it's how it's been handled since.

[fatterdaysaint]

I voted for Jordan's list, because he presented what I was looking for: how MEANINGFUL these deaths were. Sure, the deaths of Superman and Robin were memorable, but were they meaningful? Perhaps not. It really all depends on the viewer, doesn't it? When it all came down to it , it was a very close tie on everyone's part. How strongly they felt towards their choices, and how it was reflected. That being said, Jordan wins again, for his compassion and his articulation...
And when Jordan wins, Texas wins, BWAHAHAHA!

[Vector]

Jordan started crying, so I had to vote for him. There there brave young Jordan.


Heh, how about a 10 Most Meaningless Deaths in Comics list?

[Tan K.]

Tom got my vote. Good list especially since it included Roy fokker and Optimus Prime.

Dave's list was pretty good too.

Mike: Pyro? Come on now. Wolverine....overdone rant.

Mitch: Genosha? eh.

Jordan: Loved the Magneto reference. So right on the bullseye on that one. The rest...who?

[theprofessional]

Jordan T. Maxwell!!!

ruined the end of preacher for me too!

[magiklover]

I voted for Jordan's list because his explanations were better than the rest.

[Merlin]

good lists from everybody
it was a hard choice between Mitch Browns and Mike Gonzalez

Mike listed the deaths in Maus - which is one of the best comics to ever be produced but the rest on his list were O.K.

Mitch had V's death which was so moving and so so great and the rest of his list was very solid
so I voted for Mitch

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

regarding those who believe i've "spoiled" Preacher and Sandman for them...if you haven't read a book that's been finished and wrapped up for five or ten years, then i think the statute of limitations on "spoiler warnings" has pretty much been worn out. It's like someone complaining about being spoiled on the ending of Citizen Kane or The Usual Suspects. if you haven't read/seen it by now, you've got no one to blame but yourself. ;)

besides, those aren't the TOTAL endings anyway. :D

and Tan...if you don't know what i'm talking about, then why don't you go try and read something new and different? I know it's scary...but i'll be here when you get back. everything will be okay. :p

[Mitch Brown]

Jordan - yeah you spoiled the end of Preacher for me..but hey, its my fault for letting the book slip back in the first place.

I'm in agreeance..a book that finished 5 years ago should not need spoiler warnings.

[Alan Lynch]

Originally posted by Vector
Heh, how about a 10 Most Meaningless Deaths in Comics list?
10 isn't a high enough number.

I voted for Mike's list. It was the closest to what I would have picked - though Tom's came close. Optimus Prime and Ben Reilly? Big points there.
Ideally, I'd take a combination of all the lists here, purge the Waynes (we never saw it! Or them! It means nothing!) and Uncle Ben and add the (tragically spoiled by Damn Mackie) death of Aunt May from ASM #400. I was this close to tears reading that.

[aylw]

Man... meaningful deaths? Even AFTER reading all those deaths, I can only think of two that left an impact on me (that wasn't rage at killing a cool character worthlessly)

One would be Rorschach. Man... That death... Even though I thought the other half of the ending was kind of a let down, the Rorschach part was... perfect. Well, they could have done with more advanced colouring, (and better art never hurts), but yeah. I read that... took a step back. Read it again. and then just sat back and said "Wow".

THe other, surprisingly, was Blink during Phalanx Covenant. I don't know what it was, but that character being introduced, and being killed so fast. - It leaves such an impact. Come on, she was such a beloved character, that they turned her into a star in AOA. And it took only 4 iss