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View Full Version : DID I THINK THAT OUT LOUD?!? #30: WHAT IF... EXCALIBUR HAD LIVED?


Jim Lemoine
Feb 4, 2004, 03:01 pm
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/logos/dittol_logo.gif" align=left border=0 alt="Did I Think That Out Loud?!? logo">By Jim Lemoine, jimlemoine@comixfan.cjb.net

What If... Excalibur Had Lived?

The following is reprinted from a news feature column covering the release of Marvel's new Excalibur title, circa February, 2004, on Earth 867.

Marvel's finally made it official: this March, the second Excalibur title arrives at last. Legend of Excalibur #1 will debut concurrently with the big 200th issue of the regular Excalibur title.

"This is something the fans have been clamoring for, for a long time," said Marvel Editor-In-Chief Joe Quesada. "And you won't believe the team we've assembled to make Legend of Excalibur #1 the most powerful debut issue since Alan Moore came back to Captain Britain."

According to Marvel sources, Legend of Excalibur will be written and drawn by the original series creators, Chris Claremont and Alan Davis, marking the first time this team has worked together since they left the core Excalibur book in 1997. With Claremont coming off an extremely well-received five-year run on Shadowcat, and Davis fresh from his Hush Batman arc with Jeph Loeb, both creators are said to be looking forward to returning to the team they're arguably best known for.

Although fans, critics, and Marvel business-types alike seem overjoyed by the possibility of seeing this team together again, there is a slight undercurrent of anxiety as to how long the partnership will last. Although details have never been officially released and the two creators have never spoken of it, there have always been rumors of a tension in their partnership, dating all the way back to the first Cross-Time Caper arc. At the time, word on the street said that disagreements over the direction of the title and its characters (specifically, the issues of team leadership and Meggan's love life) threatened to cause one or both creators to leave Excalibur. Thankfully, Terry Kavanagh (who was then only Excalibur's editor; his term as Marvel's Editor-In-Chief hadn't begun yet) managed to bridge the gaps and Claremont and Davis both stayed on the title. Cross-Time Caper was completed successfully by Claremont and Davis, and was followed by three more hugely popular arcs that served to cement the title's place as Marvel's #1 book: A Technet Story, Girls' School From Heck, and Cross-Time Caper II (which was recently given the hardcover treatment by Marvel's trade division).

The Excalibur franchise has been a huge success for Marvel almost since the core title's very launch, in many ways driving the entire industry's direction for the decade of the nineties. Every decade seems to have its "core" comic title: in the sixties Fantastic Four was the big thing, the book that introduced comics readers to all-too-human characters and continuing storylines. Then Amazing Spider-Man took over as the industry's front-runner during the seventies, featuring intricate relationship-based plots and the hard-luck hero we all know and love. Uncanny X-Men was, of course, the big book of the eighties, with its themes of fighting prejudice and unsung heroes. And for a while, it looked like Uncanny X-Men was going to rule the nineties as well... but that was before October 1, 1990, when Excalibur #30 finally became the first of many issues to outsell Uncanny. Then when Excalibur #39 outsold both X-Force #1 and X-Men #1 and the speculator craze was officially proclaimed dead, we all knew it had become the decade of Brian, Kurt, Kitty, Meggan, and Rachel.

One almost has to wonder how different the nineties would have been if not for Excalibur's clear market dominance. This columnist can only imagine that Uncanny X-Men would have remained on top of the heap, with the industry as a whole stagnating under its weight. Or perhaps the #1 mantle would have passed back to the title of the seventies, Amazing Spider-Man, where the critically-acclaimed "Clone" storyline was wowing audiences and gaining mainstream attention. Or maybe speculation would have continued unabated and our copies of X-Force #1 would be virtually worthless, believe it or not. However, all this is mere speculation: Claremont and Davis's run on the title, which finally ended with issue #75 in 1994, kept Excalibur firmly entrenched in the industry's #1 spot. And other titles, be they from Marvel, DC, Valiant, or any of the other publishers, followed Excalibur's lead: suddenly every title was advertised as having strong stories, clean, realistic art, and creators with lengthy tenures.

With a seemingly unending barrage of cheap tie-ins and limited series over the last few years, though, the strength of the Excalibur franchise has been waning. Although Grant Morrison's celebrated run as writer (which will end with Excalibur #199 next month) has helped the core title's financial success, spin-offs have not fared as well. Despite its strong critical acclaim, Claremont's Shadowcat series is again rumored to be in danger of cancellation. Sales have similarly slipped on the Milligan/Allred Captain Britain, as well as the critically-panned Nightcrawler under writer Chuck Austen. And the past few years have seen both the best and the worst of limited series: while Alan Moore's limited series The Extraordinary Excalibur was a huge hit and the Loeb/Sale produced Captain Britain: White (which dealt with the Captain's early relationship with Courtney Ross) was hailed a masterpiece, the franchise was bogged down with titles like Nightcrawler: Bamf (a manga disaster by Tsutomu Nihei) and Excalibur: Phoenix (a MAX title consisting mostly of shots of Rachel Summers and Meggan in tiny metal outfits that held onto the curves of their bodies with remarkable tenacity).

Obviously with some of these gratuitous tie-ins, we've fallen a long way from classics like Casey's The Sword Is Drawn or even Nicieza's Excalibur Forever.

In addition to bringing the Excalibur team back to what Quesada calls "that classic feel," Marvel hopes to use "Excalibur Reload" to tighten the connection between Excalibur and the suffering X-Men franchise. The success of the two X-Men movies has not carried over to the comic series, and nothing, not even Peter Milligan's Eisner-winning Uncanny X-Men, seems to be able to slow the franchise's decline. Although a long way from the franchise's low in the mid-nineties, when repeated fill-in arcs by Michael Higgins, Richard Ashford, and Ben Raab nearly got both Uncanny and X-Men cancelled, numbers are still disappointingly low for Marvel.

Meanwhile, several of the titles in the extended EX line have been improving and/or holding steady. Gail Simone and UDON will be celebrating their 30th issue covering Wade Wilson in Deadpool #94, a story that will tie in to Legend of Excalibur #1. eX-Force, by the fan-favorite team of Frank Tieri and Whilce Portacio, will also be connected to the new title's launch. Judd Winick's Exiles will receive a double-sized issue as he wraps up the book's latest mega-arc with the return of artist Mike McKone, and there are even rumors that a new book called Weapon X may debut in May. Current speculation places either Tieri or Winick as the writer.

Details are tightly under wraps regarding the big story arc that will be featured in Excalibur #200 and LOE #1, but Claremont has let slip a few details. "Nightcrawler's marital problems are going to come to a head, and we'll finally get a resolution between him and Cerise, I promise," said the writer. "Brian's going to be in the sauce again, Betsy's going to return to the team to help him out. You're going to see one of the biggest developments since Cable was revealed to be an alternate Mr. Sinister, and... what's that? A metal-skinned Russian? Sorry, don't know what you're talking about."

Claremont, you tease.

Alan Davis seems to be no less excited about his return to the franchise that really made his career: "Chris and I have been going over old plots, new plots, old characters, new characters... and I can tell you, this is going to be an amazing comic. We've had our differences in the past, yes, but we've always managed to overcome them because we value the working relationship so highly. Here's hoping we beat that puny 75-issue run this time around!"

The confirmation of Claremont and Davis as the creative team on the new title seems to lay to rest rumors that Jim Valentino would be returning to Marvel to work on Excalibur. Since leaving the company following the publication of Guardians of the Galaxy #100, Valentino still seems committed to his fledgling "Image" comic book publishing house. So far the company's only hit has been Valentino's own Shadowhawk, but the new Spawn series by Todd McFarlane is gaining in popularity. Still, Valentino has stated that he "remains open" to Marvel EIC Joe Quesada's invitation to return to either Guardians or New Warriors (which will celebrate an anniversary of its own, #175, in April).

Excalibur #200 by Claremont and Larocca, featuring a back-up story by former Avengers writer/Marvel EIC Terry Kavanagh, will go on sale this March. Legend of Excalibur #1, by Claremont and Davis, will be released two weeks later.

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Jim Lemoine, ComiX-Fan's Columns Editor, recently completed the manuscript for his first book, an examination of business leadership. This column's been in his head for years, he believes there's a point to it all, and no, he's not currently on drugs.

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The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of ComiX-Fan or its other staff in general.

Zeb Aslam
Feb 4, 2004, 03:17 pm
Nice! I knew the X-men were big, but this really made me realize just how big the entire X-men line is. I never realized they had this many books!! Also...nice dig at how Marvel is bringing back a book which was bogged down with so many problems during it's initial run that reading it almost always resulted in a headache. Anyways...the article was good readin' and keep up the good work!

bmack
Feb 4, 2004, 03:18 pm
Odd.... very odd. But good.

What could have been....

~ The Mack

Elder Raven
Feb 4, 2004, 03:28 pm
:chin: Sass, satire and sarcasm. ;) You go, dude.

bravelybravesirrobin
Feb 4, 2004, 03:54 pm
what a wondrous world it could have been

I love excalibur, always have, always will. count me in on the new title

just a shame it's a different team and likely not brit based (unless it's the prof on muir island) it was the characters and the english connection that got me to read the book and the intriguing characters, humour and outrageous storylines that kept me there. the Davis run is superior to any 90's x-men story in any 90's x-men title ever produced

Mark
Feb 4, 2004, 03:57 pm
funny, good satire but man am i glad it never happened. Excalibur (the original) sucked. The characters were SO lame with the exception of some of course.


*ducks flying objects*

cypherlock
Feb 4, 2004, 04:06 pm
GREAT idea for a column. And well done too.

And thankfully Austen's "Nightcrawler" run in this alternate reality was critically panned. I heard in one reality, Austen's books were critically acclaimed, and the Exiles had to go in and fix that.

bugalugs1
Feb 4, 2004, 04:30 pm
OKay
I want to live in *that* reality!!

200 issues of Rachel!!!

dizfactor
Feb 4, 2004, 04:53 pm
very odd "What If?" scenario. it's bizarre, because i knew so few people who ever really liked Excalibur when it was out that it doesn't seem remotely plausible. it always struck me as the least popular X-book by far.

i always disliked (pre-Ellis) Excalibur, myself, overall. it seemed to be a receptacle for the sorts of bad/cheesy ideas which never fit well into the X-universe to begin with but seemed to keep popping up in UXM and New Mutants anyway. basically, i'm talking about the goofy fantasy elements and characters like Lockheed, Brian, and Meggan. i hated Roma in Fall of the Mutants, i hated all the Asgardian crap in New Mutants, etc, and i hated having magic-y characters full-time in an X-book*. it's just the wrong corner of the MU for that sort of thing. bleh.

also, Rachel was always really, really annoying and having a actual full-blown Phoenix on the team full-time always killed a lot of the majesty and mystery of the whole Phoenix deal (though i will admit that i marked out like a little girl when she just handed it to Galactus and Nova in issue #25).

not liking Brian, Meggan, Lockheed, Widget, or Rachel kind of limited the appeal of the book. i love Kurt, and Kitty's almost tolerable, i suppose, but that's not enough, really.

but what really killed Excalibur for me, and also killed a lot of momentum for the series as a whole, was the Cross-Time Caper. not only was it an abysmally bad storyline (except for the silly Acts of Vengeance parody dimension, which i thought was funny), it went on for waaaaaay too long, and happened at exactly the wrong time in the life of the series for them to leave the main continuity for over a year.

i didn't read Ellis' run regularly, but it was really the first time i really found Excalibur interesting. it seemed a lot more grounded and intelligent, whereas it always felt like a really airheaded title before that. Kitty was actually interesting for once, which was nice, and what i saw of Pete Wisdom and Black Air and all that seemed interesting enough. i'd like to go back and read it at some point.

in general, i'm really glad i don't live in that reality, because as bad as the 90s were, at least it wasn't as bad as it would have been had Excalibur, of all comics, dominated the decade.

* though i was always really, really into Magik. i have no idea why she and the whole Limbo thing were OK when i hated all the rest of them, but whatever.

Martin Dudek
Feb 4, 2004, 05:10 pm
"Claremont, you tease."

:LOL: Well, I never thought I'd hear about the Excalibur line, but I guess this could have happened.

And Morry was on Excalibur? I wonder... did Rachel wear the reverse X-bra? :p

Wolverine
Feb 4, 2004, 05:54 pm
Now that was a truely bizarr column

UMichWolverine
Feb 4, 2004, 06:20 pm
the franchise was bogged down with titles like Nightcrawler: Bamf (a manga disaster by Tsutomu Nihei) and Excalibur: Phoenix (a MAX title consisting mostly of shots of Rachel Summers and Meggan in tiny metal outfits that held onto the curves of their bodies with remarkable tenacity).



LOL. That line alone was worth the read of this article.

Very interesting and insightful.

Alex Guillen
Feb 4, 2004, 06:22 pm
I'm just hoping when the reload event hits and excalibur comes back, we'll see the team and book head through a definite direction and don't float out into nowhere after the original creators left the book and at least in this reality, ended up in cancellation around 1997.

and yes, the exiles had to go to another reality to fix it but they just screwed it up for everyone when mimic hit the wrong key on the keyboard and austen's The Draco came over to the mind of this dimension's Chuck Austen. :clown:

hexx
Feb 4, 2004, 06:32 pm
:cuckoo: yeah, i'm gona have to go with weird on this one. Likeable, but weird. Clearly you have a lil' too much time on your hands! ah but it is nice to wonder... ok i like it... weirdo :cuckoo:

:bite:

umanumanamo
Feb 4, 2004, 06:40 pm
Very interesting read.

Foenix
Feb 4, 2004, 06:45 pm
I gotta go with Bugalugs on this one. How can I get into this reality? =)

Bring Back Rachel!

J

tjtolosa
Feb 4, 2004, 07:13 pm
well, that was....different. ;) I always liked the old what if? series though, so it was an entertaining article. :D

cypherlock
Feb 4, 2004, 08:32 pm
Okay, I've read every one of the "Did I think that out loud?!?!?" columns, so this one isn't THAT weird to me. It's in the same style as all the rest: insightful, completely offbeat way to do a column, and if you read between the lines and THINK for a second you see all of the points he's trying to make.

I don't think it's weird at all. I think it's brilliant.

(Note: Those of you who didn't quite keep up with this one might want to avoid the "A Fanboy Laments the X-men" and "An Elitist Laments the X-men" columns. Those of you who liked it, read through these babies--good stuff.)

Suzene
Feb 4, 2004, 09:06 pm
The inside of your head is an interesting place. Are you offering vacation packages?

Suzene

ExtraEpidermis
Feb 4, 2004, 09:30 pm
I want one of these for Generation X.....

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 4, 2004, 09:48 pm
my god...Lemoine, you clever bastard. I love the sound of this reality (though things sound dire if Spawn is about to to be introduced into this reality...it's like the first time Galactus visits any given reality's Earth: you have no idea if you're going to survive it or not).

Despite my love for the X-Men...i'd like to live in this reality. A world where Excalibur didn't become the silly spin off Euro-mutant title it was in the 90s. A world where Claremont and Morrison both got their turns at these great characters. A world with Eisner award winning work from Milligan on X-Men and a sweet revisionist origin mini by Casey in the vein of Children of the Atom (that IS what you had in mind with The Sword is Drawn, right?). It is curious to me, though, where this would have left my beloved Wildstorm titles. If Jim Lee had never become a fan favorite through his run on X-Men (as can be evidenced through the fact that it wasn't he who drew Hush with Loeb and that there was no successful WildC.A.T.s out of Image), then he never would have started the imprint which would have left no avenue for the revisionist supehero narrative brought about by Ellis and Casey through their runs on Authority, Planetary and Wildcats (respectively). why, it's a world gone MAD! But...certain trends and responses in the industry are as natural as the tides. The revisionist trend would have had to have taken form somewhere. These stories would have had to have been told...they're too important to the development of the superhero narrative and industry as a whole (whether you realize it or not). Hmm...i wonder where they would have ended up...

Damn it...that's the problem with alternate earths. change one event, and you end up with rippling effects everywhere. :D at least Vertigo would've remained the same...OR WOULD IT???

Airhead
Feb 4, 2004, 11:47 pm
This was my favorite "Did I Think That Out Loud"!:D
Great job!
Now I'm sad that it didn't last that long and we didn't get to read some of those stories!:(

raul grau
Feb 5, 2004, 02:59 am
Hmmm... a reality where real substance outshines both image and Image... I bet They Might Be Giants are at the top of the Billboard charts and Firefly is the number one rated show in America too. Makes me wish I had a cosmic treadmill handy.

Wonderful article as always, Jim.

Excalibur was my favorite X-title simply because it was so far outside of the homogenous idea of what an X-title should be. Mutants working with humans? Humorous storylines? Mocking excessive continuity instead of relishing in it? It was just so crazy it did work.. for the first 50 or so issues at least. :)

Ellis is a genius, and almost everything he writes is brilliantly dark and intricate, including his run on Excalibur... but it just wasn't Excalibur.

- Raul

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 5, 2004, 04:01 am
Originally posted by jcknite
Hmmm... a reality where real substance outshines both image and Image... I bet They Might Be Giants are at the top of the Billboard charts and Firefly is the number one rated show in America too. Makes me wish I had a cosmic treadmill handy.

Wonderful article as always, Jim.

Excalibur was my favorite X-title simply because it was so far outside of the homogenous idea of what an X-title should be. Mutants working with humans? Humorous storylines? Mocking excessive continuity instead of relishing in it? It was just so crazy it did work.. for the first 50 or so issues at least. :)

Ellis is a genius, and almost everything he writes is brilliantly dark and intricate, including his run on Excalibur... but it just wasn't Excalibur.

- Raul

well, Firefly would probably be tied with Sports Night in that reality. And Black Panther never would've been cancelled.

;)

Roberto Polanco
Feb 5, 2004, 09:00 am
I always liked Excalibur. I thought it had a very diferent feel. I always believed that it died BECAUSE it was forcefully tied into xmen.

dizfactor
Feb 5, 2004, 11:35 am
Originally posted by Kuririnzrp
I always liked Excalibur. I thought it had a very diferent feel. I always believed that it died BECAUSE it was forcefully tied into xmen.

i think that in many ways it died because it tried to straddle a fence it shouldn't have tried to straddle. it was too closely tied to the X-Men to have a chance to succeed on its own merits in its own niche, but it wasn't tied closely enough to work as an X-book, either.

i'm really curious to see what the new incarnation of the book is going to look like.

Plasma Charge
Feb 6, 2004, 12:12 am
Wow! Great column, Jim! It was very creative, and a great satire of the industry as a whole. I loved it. Definitely one of my favorite "Did I Think That Out Loud?!?" installments.

Originally posted by Jim Lemoine
So far the company's only hit has been Valentino's own Shadowhawk...
Man, did this bring back memories. That used to be one of my favorite old-school Image books!

dreamer
Feb 6, 2004, 10:28 am
Originally posted by Jim Lemoine

You're going to see one of the biggest developments since Cable was revealed to be an alternate Mr. Sinister...

:dunce: :p maybe it was actually sinister who was revealed to be an alternate version of nathan dayspring rocketed back into the past by a sisterhood of askani gone bad?? :p

jordan, when you say revisionist, you mean smthg positie like breathing new life into it and providing a new and critical angle, right? 'cause all this word provokes in my mind is somwthing like an insult or betreyal to the original or even treason...

and, god! "old-school image book"?? i should be getting old.. :p

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 6, 2004, 01:46 pm
Originally posted by dreamer


:dunce: :p maybe it was actually sinister who was revealed to be an alternate version of nathan dayspring rocketed back into the past by a sisterhood of askani gone bad?? :p

jordan, when you say revisionist, you mean smthg positie like breathing new life into it and providing a new and critical angle, right? 'cause all this word provokes in my mind is somwthing like an insult or betreyal to the original or even treason...

and, god! &quot;old-school image book&quot;?? i should be getting old.. :p

revision...as in "see again." i'll leave it to you to decide what that means. and if you're wrong, you'll be left behind when the revolution comes. ;)

Plasma Charge
Feb 6, 2004, 11:55 pm
Originally posted by dreamer

and, god! "old-school image book"?? i should be getting old.. :p
Aw, come on... You know what I meant. ;)

Jon Hancock
Feb 10, 2004, 12:56 am
we can but dream.

and when it comes to rachel and meggan in tight metal outfits most of us will.

"one of the biggest developments since Cable was revealed to be an alternate Mr. Sinister"

and that was a coffee spitter

dopplegager
Mar 2, 2004, 02:00 am
I didn't knwo that Excalibur sold that well.

dreamer
Mar 2, 2004, 06:19 pm
in case you absolutely missed the point; that was an alternate reality; the original excalibur in our reality did not sell that much..